A Japanese Debacle - Sqz (J) vs. fcharton (A)

[SqzMyLemon]

Jan. 29/42:

China:

Results of the attacks in China. Does 2:1 odds in ground combat no longer force a retreat?

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Ground combat at 86,49 (near Sinyang)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 32123 troops, 252 guns, 71 vehicles, Assault Value = 1065

Defending force 14301 troops, 71 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 379

Japanese adjusted assault: 823

Allied adjusted defense: 301

Japanese assault odds: 2 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
727 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 81 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 6 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled

Allied ground losses:
1351 casualties reported
Squads: 5 destroyed, 78 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 22 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 2 disabled

Assaulting units:
34th Division
1st Ind.Mixed Brigade
32nd Division
14th RGC Temp. Division

Defending units:
7th Chinese Corps
84th Chinese Corps
21st Group Army

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Ground combat at Kukong (79,57)

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 1269 troops, 70 guns, 100 vehicles, Assault Value = 1441

Defending force 23446 troops, 112 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 442

Allied ground losses:
64 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 3 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Assaulting units:
51st Division
15th Division
104th Division
19th Ind.Mixed Brigade
2nd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
1st Hvy.Artillery Regiment
21st Mortar Battalion
23rd Army
13th Army
3rd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion

Defending units:
63rd Chinese Corps
25th Chinese Corps
65th Chinese Corps
11th Chinese Base Force
12th Group Army
7th War Area
18th Chinese Base Force

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Ground combat at 86,45 (near Nanyang)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 14296 troops, 122 guns, 42 vehicles, Assault Value = 452

Defending force 748 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 6

Japanese adjusted assault: 99

Allied adjusted defense: 1

Japanese assault odds: 99 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: op mode(-), leaders(+), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker: leaders(+), leaders(-), disruption(-)

Allied ground losses:
1032 casualties reported
Squads: 36 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 48 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 0 disabled
Units destroyed 1

Assaulting units:
26th Division

Defending units:
7th New Chinese Corps

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Ground combat at Pingsiang (82,54)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 37530 troops, 460 guns, 44 vehicles, Assault Value = 1011

Defending force 23680 troops, 188 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 538

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 0

Japanese adjusted assault: 710

Allied adjusted defense: 381

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese Assault reduces fortifications to 0

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), preparation(-), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
1849 casualties reported
Squads: 3 destroyed, 166 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 20 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 12 disabled

Allied ground losses:
452 casualties reported
Squads: 3 destroyed, 63 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled

Assaulting units:
6th Division
40th Division
22nd Division
52nd Ind.Mtn.Gun Battalion
14th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
51st Ind.Mtn.Gun Battalion
1st Mortar Battalion
8th Ind Engineer Regiment
2nd Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
4th Mortar Battalion

Defending units:
50th Chinese Corps
21st Chinese Corps
9th Prov Chinese Corps
3rd New Chinese Corps
23rd Group Army

New Guinea:

A Japanese fast transport invasion at Buna goes bad. The two APD's remain at the base after unloading the troops and both get sunk by Allied carrier bombers based at Port Moresby. Of course my mission goes south while Allied surface ships continue to sail with Japanese LBA and never suffer a single hit. [8|]

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Morning Air attack on TF, near Buna at 99,129

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid spotted at 16 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Allied aircraft
SBD-3 Dauntless x 12

Allied aircraft losses
SBD-3 Dauntless: 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
APD Nadakaze
APD Shimakaze, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
2 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring APD Shimakaze


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Morning Air attack on TF, near Buna at 99,129

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid spotted at 10 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Allied aircraft
TBD-1 Devastator x 8

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
APD Nadakaze, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x TBD-1 Devastator bombing from 10000 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 500 lb SAP Bomb

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring APD Nadakaze

So even at 10k the Allied TB's score three hits on a APD. Wow.

[SqzMyLemon]

I've never had an issue with the height I've flown the Betty/Nell bombers from either. In this case these were set to 14k and the target was 6-7 hexes away. I've flown as low as 5k and still not recorded any hits. I've NEVER seen such poor results in ANY of my games before. I don't care what the reasons might be, because I've had success in the past. I have had ZERO in DBB.

[FeurerKrieg]

Results of the attacks in China. Does 2:1 odds in ground combat no longer force a retreat?

If they were not in a base hex, they may have had unit based forts which you still need to overcome. At least that is my understanding.

[SqzMyLemon]

ORIGINAL: Feurer Krieg

If they were not in a base hex, they may have had unit based forts which you still need to overcome. At least that is my understanding.

I've always struggled understanding field fortifications. Do they get reduced from combat as fort levels do at bases, or is there some odds threshold to achieve to overcome them, as you imply? To my understanding, there is no way to prevent or destroy field fortification levels at all during combat. At least, I've never seen a reduction of fort levels in a non-base hex combat report. Am I understanding this incorrectly?

[FeurerKrieg]

I'm not sure if they can be destroyed or not. I do often get a result of say 2:1 or 3:1, some of the enemy units retreat, but not all. But then the next turn, since there are less enemy, I get large results of say 20:1, which would overcome any remaining forts anyway.

I just haven't tracked this sort of thing enough to know for sure. I do think you have to overcome field fortifications, via odds, to force a retreat though.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

ORIGINAL: Feurer Krieg

If they were not in a base hex, they may have had unit based forts which you still need to overcome. At least that is my understanding.

I've always struggled understanding field fortifications. Do they get reduced from combat as fort levels do at bases, or is there some odds threshold to achieve to overcome them, as you imply? To my understanding, there is no way to prevent or destroy field fortification levels at all during combat. At least, I've never seen a reduction of fort levels in a non-base hex combat report. Am I understanding this incorrectly?

I also have never seen reduction of field forts. Fortification includes things like cutting clear fields of fire of all cover: how do you reduce that other than try to move in some very big rocks and logs?

[ny59giants]

Non-base fortifications: The rule of thumb is each LCU retreats only when their fort level is overcome. So, an unit with forts at 3 needs 4:1 odds before it retreats. There is no steady reduction in fort levels from say 3 to 2 to 1 and then none like you see at a base. So in China right now, my many stacks of units have been in place for months along my MLR and some have forts still at 2 while another unit there is up to 5. Go figure. [8|]

[BBfanboy]

Engineers are needed to advance field forts significantly. They will build for their own unit's first and then seem to help units like HQs get some forts built.

[SqzMyLemon]

Thanks for the comments everyone. Definitely food for thought in terms of how to proceed in China. I do find it strange that field fortifications can never be destroyed through combat, perhaps an oversight in the game design? Regardless, it will pose some tactical problems for me. However, it appears the majority of Chinese occupied non-base hexes are situated around Sian, exactly where I don't plan on attacking anytime soon. [8D]

[FeurerKrieg]

I'm not sure they aren't destroyed. It might just be their destruction isn't reported. I'm sure someone else knows for sure.

[SqzMyLemon]

Jan. 30/42:

China:

Some good and not so good progress in China. Kukong is captured. AAR follows:

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Ground combat at Kukong (79,57)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 50694 troops, 457 guns, 221 vehicles, Assault Value = 1460

Defending force 23455 troops, 112 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 442

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 0

Japanese adjusted assault: 1119

Allied adjusted defense: 259

Japanese assault odds: 4 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Kukong !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), preparation(-), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
748 casualties reported
Squads: 3 destroyed, 75 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 9 disabled

Allied ground losses:
7836 casualties reported
Squads: 275 destroyed, 32 disabled
Non Combat: 349 destroyed, 40 disabled
Engineers: 47 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 24 (16 destroyed, 8 disabled)
Units retreated 7

Defeated Allied Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
104th Division
15th Division
51st Division
19th Ind.Mixed Brigade
23rd Army
1st Hvy.Artillery Regiment
13th Army
21st Mortar Battalion
2nd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
3rd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion

Defending units:
63rd Chinese Corps
25th Chinese Corps
65th Chinese Corps
7th War Area
12th Group Army
11th Chinese Base Force
18th Chinese Base Force

Trying to clear the woods northeast of Changsha to close the hex side. Ouch. AAR follows:

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Ground combat at 82,51 (near Changsha)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 25367 troops, 174 guns, 36 vehicles, Assault Value = 780

Defending force 12206 troops, 38 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 432

Japanese adjusted assault: 273

Allied adjusted defense: 429

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 2

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), fatigue(-), experience(-)
Attacker: supply(-)

Japanese ground losses:
2375 casualties reported
Squads: 23 destroyed, 234 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 30 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 7 disabled
Guns lost 9 (1 destroyed, 8 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
674 casualties reported
Squads: 7 destroyed, 102 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 6 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled

Assaulting units:
20th Ind.Mixed Brigade
18th Ind.Mixed Brigade
37th Division

Defending units:
99th Chinese Corps

[SqzMyLemon]

Jan. 31/42:

Australia:

A better raid against Brisbane, but I lose six Val's to Ops. I've only accumulated 104 strategic VP's so far, but I plan on being in Australia for another five months before pulling out. AAR follows:

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Morning Air attack on Brisbane , at 96,160

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 111 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 41 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 42
D3A1 Val x 115

Japanese aircraft losses
D3A1 Val: 19 damaged

Light Industry hits 7

Borneo:

Japanese forces land at Tarakan. AAR follows:

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Pre-Invasion action off Tarakan (67,91) - Coastal Guns Fire Back!
Defensive Guns engage approaching landing force

20 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Japanese Ships
BB Mutsu, Shell hits 1
BB Nagato
DD Akatsuki
xAK Tensin Maru
DD Oboro

Japanese ground losses:
45 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Allied ground losses:
163 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 15 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 7 disabled
Guns lost 26 (7 destroyed, 19 disabled)
Vehicles lost 3 (1 destroyed, 2 disabled)

Tarakan Defenses firing at BB Mutsu
BB Mutsu firing at Tarakan Defenses
BB Nagato firing at Tarakan MLD Base Force
DD Akatsuki firing at Tarakan MLD Base Force
DD Akatsuki fired at enemy troops
Defensive Guns fire at approaching troops in landing craft at 5,000 yards
Defensive Guns fire at approaching troops in landing craft at 2,000 yards

China:

Pingsiang is turning out to be a grind. AAR follows:

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Ground combat at Pingsiang (82,54)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 37164 troops, 463 guns, 47 vehicles, Assault Value = 917

Defending force 23261 troops, 188 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 485

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 0

Japanese adjusted assault: 786

Allied adjusted defense: 473

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese Assault reduces fortifications to 0

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), preparation(-), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
876 casualties reported
Squads: 4 destroyed, 69 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 8 disabled
Engineers: 4 destroyed, 8 disabled

Allied ground losses:
561 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 54 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 8 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 2 disabled

Assaulting units:
6th Division
40th Division
8th Ind Engineer Regiment
22nd Division
51st Ind.Mtn.Gun Battalion
14th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
52nd Ind.Mtn.Gun Battalion
2nd Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
1st Mortar Battalion
4th Mortar Battalion

Defending units:
21st Chinese Corps
9th Prov Chinese Corps
50th Chinese Corps
3rd New Chinese Corps
23rd Group Army

Clearing the woods hex southeast of Sinyang. Two of three Chinese units retreat into clear terrain. AAR follows:

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Ground combat at 86,49 (near Sinyang)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 32882 troops, 264 guns, 71 vehicles, Assault Value = 1001

Defending force 13394 troops, 71 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 278

Japanese adjusted assault: 748

Allied adjusted defense: 247

Japanese assault odds: 3 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
1054 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 48 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 8 disabled

Allied ground losses:
4893 casualties reported
Squads: 163 destroyed, 12 disabled
Non Combat: 182 destroyed, 4 disabled
Engineers: 3 destroyed, 1 disabled
Guns lost 13 (5 destroyed, 8 disabled)
Units retreated 2

Defeated Allied Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
34th Division
32nd Division
1st Ind.Mixed Brigade
14th RGC Temp. Division

Defending units:
7th Chinese Corps
84th Chinese Corps
21st Group Army

Thoughts:

The end of January. Only two months left of the landing bonus. I'm desperately short of surface assets in the DEI. I overcommitted to Australia. I'm trying to rectify the situation.

A large Allied surface force is detected in the Coral Sea, heading east to disrupt my LOC to Australia. Betty's based at Rabaul do not sortie against the enemy taskforce at a range of 9 hexes. What else is new. [8|]

However, I have a strong surface TF on hand near Shortlands. There could be a surface engagement tomorrow. I'm also sending KB on a full speed run from Rockhampton to the area to be in position for a strike, providing the Allied TF doesn't withdraw. I must be careful not stray within range of Port Moresby's DB's with my SCTF.

There's also a strong enemy TF spotted at Soerabja, which might include BB POW. I expect a strike against Balikpapan. I have LBA set and a large surface TF at Balikpapan, not that the LBA will do a damn thing of course. This is almost two months of no successful naval LBA strikes against the Allies coming back to haunt me.

Frankly, the performance of my LBA has really put the screws to me this game, and most of my problems in the DEI stem directly from that fact. Sour grapes indeed.

[Lokasenna]

Sucks about your stack attack that was low on supply, but you didn't lose many devices it looks like. If you have to, you can send them back to garrison Shanghai while they recover (note that non-combat troops still fulfill garrison requirements, albeit not as easily as 1 point of AV does - just check on the mouseover on the map if your garrison is met or not).

[SqzMyLemon]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Sucks about your stack attack that was low on supply, but you didn't lose many devices it looks like. If you have to, you can send them back to garrison Shanghai while they recover (note that non-combat troops still fulfill garrison requirements, albeit not as easily as 1 point of AV does - just check on the mouseover on the map if your garrison is met or not).

When I ordered the attack, I don't recall seeing supply in red for any of the units. It's too bad I didn't wait before launching the attack, the second brigade just arrived at Shanghai which would have allowed me to combine both brigades into a full division. I'll stay in the hex and reinforce.

I really don't like how the combat model always seems to trash one unit, rather than spread out the losses.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

I really don't like how the combat model always seems to trash one unit, rather than spread out the losses.

Think of it as the spearhead unit ... fairly realistic. What I don't like is that you cannot choose that unit which is definitely carefully chosen IRL.

[SqzMyLemon]

Feb. 1/42:

Well, a new month appears to portend the same kind of results for Japanese naval air attacks as the previous two. I pretty much give up on hoping my luck changes. I don't think it is unreasonable to expect better results from KB.

KB successfully makes a speed run to put itself 4 hexes away from the Allied SCTF spotted near the Coral Sea. No morning strike, but there is an afternoon one. Apparently KB is capable of launching every aircraft against a base, but not against a naval target. Results are absolutely mediocre. AAR follows:

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Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Rennell Island at 109,140

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid spotted at 17 NM, estimated altitude 17,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 35
B5N2 Kate x 32
D3A1 Val x 45

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 4 damaged
D3A1 Val: 8 damaged
D3A1 Val: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied Ships
CA Indianapolis, Bomb hits 1
CA New Orleans, Bomb hits 2, on fire
CA Minneapolis
DD Henley
DD Jarvis

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
16 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 45cm Type 91 Torp
6 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
16 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 45cm Type 91 Torp
9 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
8 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
8 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb

I give up and my interest in this game is quickly reaching zero. This was just the last straw. I put myself in a position to catch my opponent, which I did, only to have nothing to show for it. Only a third of KB's combat strength committed to this strike and only three bomb hits recorded is an absolute joke. For those that will pile on, I will say again, I don't always expect spectacular results, but this is happening almost every combat situation involving my naval air forces. My best weapons are proving to be practically useless in this game.

[Bullwinkle58]

It was recently pointed out to me by my DBB game opponent that the mod severely reduces naval aircraft accuracy figures from stock. I have not checked the editor, but that may be the source of some of your frustration. Also, AA effectiveness is higher everywhere in DBB. That I can attest to as Lokasenna and I are playing a stock game with the DBB AA and ASW code overlaid.

[SqzMyLemon]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

It was recently pointed out to me by my DBB game opponent that the mod severely reduces naval aircraft accuracy figures from stock. I have not checked the editor, but that may be the source of some of your frustration. Also, AA effectiveness is higher everywhere in DBB. That I can attest to as Lokasenna and I are playing a stock game with the DBB AA and ASW code overlaid.

My last game using any mod. This isn't fun anymore. It's February of 1942 and I can't hit a damn thing.

[Bullwinkle58]

Three hits out of 45 Vals, in the rain, is hardly nothing.

[Lowpe]

I am in July of 44 and I can't hit a damn thing either.[:D]