2 novices take on the campaign - a different AAR
Moderators: Joel Billings, Sabre21
RE: Turn 4 - Time to Run
thanks your remarks in re taking Odessa... am trying w/all Romanian forces... will remember to load up Romanians w/such hvy arty as they have and bomb the port capacity down. Germans bypass and go to twin cities ASAP.
RE: Turn 4 - Time to Run
ORIGINAL: rrbill
@Loki100, thanks... but for an Axis only player, how should Odessa w/3 divisions be taken? Seems you suggest the Axis screen the city and carry on with the threat of a surprise naval operation.
don't want to hijack the thread but its worth bearing in mind that Pelton is not a disinterested commentator, he has no interest in people working out effective Soviet responses.
under the current rule set it is much harder to 'bomb a port shut' (certainly will take planes that are better off attacking Leningrad etc). .08 may bring some changes but I doubt it will be as easy as before.
three decent Soviet divisions will have a defensive cv in the 70-80 range. That is pretty much beyond the capacity of the Romanian army to deal with but they can opt to screen (the other side is the attack cv for the Soviets is 7-9).
so what is the gain?
well the rail line via Odessa is the only realistic way to push supply into the southern Dniepr bend and the Crimea. Over time that is easily avoided by the longer line higher up on the Yuzhny Bug. But a defense of Odessa can limit the threat to the Crimea in 1941.
Also, even accepting that the Soviets will have limited attack potential, it will take 6-8 Romanian divisions to screen the city.
Neither are war-winning but both are useful diversions .. depending on the circumstances of the game.
A variant, that I am less sure about is a big Soviet deployment (at least an army with HQ) using the outer-forts. In theory this will force a major effort as that is too dangerous just to screen, in practice I think there are better uses of a complete army in the Ukraine in 1941.
as ever, its situational ... might work well in one game and be a waste of time in another.
RE: 2 novices take on the campaign - a different AAR
you've lost a lot of people and your opponent is well versed in first turn play from going after the AI.
Rule 1 for a new player: Don't Panic.
Rule 2 for a new player: Never engage when tanks and Infantry are in close proximity during the first few turns - After turn 3 you need to hold them.
Rule 3 for a new player: Don't try to save any units - they're really trashed and fairly useless let em go and the replacement points will be better used filling up existing, healthy units.
Rule 4 for a new player: Never bring units forward during the first 3 turns. Create a set of delaying positions and rally troops there as they retreat use terrain, swamp/river/mountain etc.. in strategic choke points.
All new units and reserve troops MUST stay in your final defensive line. There's a few key points that are critical. Theres the holding position in the far North that's where the Russians can easily stop the finns by railroading a few units to the the 3 critical hexes in the first 2 turns no more than 3 units you'll be fine. Vet players are disgusted and give you mean looks but the position is secure. NoOb players will beat themselves to death and give you a few guard units.
The line Oranienbaum to Novgorod is a critical stop to defend Leningrad. Then the river line south of Novgorod - cover the first 3 or 4 hexes. Theres a free zone here to Smolensk just delay using terrain don't stand and always fall back when an enemy in division strength contacts you.
Next is the Landbridge covering Smolensk. Stack 4 high the first turn till the infantry get close. then its tricky stack 2 high with a single stack behind and a double behind that. never stack 3 high back to back as a loss routs you always allow room to retreat.
The river south to gomel can be held with single stacks that gives you units to form a second line on the river beyond when enemy inf arrive at the river its time to leave. same with the Dnepr line just remember if they cross in force run like hell and cover Kharkov and the Donitz.
Rule 5 for a new player: Relax, Its a game and oit takes a while to play itself out. think ahead. Vehicle factories are critical. Special factories for tanks and ground attack aircraft are vital as well. clear Leningrad and Kharkov immediately in that order. then Moscow and the Donitz basin.
Don't neglect air. Long range bombers and transports in VVS units set to night missions are what make your partisans work you gotta get those in serious action asap at all cost.
Rule 1 for a new player: Don't Panic.
Rule 2 for a new player: Never engage when tanks and Infantry are in close proximity during the first few turns - After turn 3 you need to hold them.
Rule 3 for a new player: Don't try to save any units - they're really trashed and fairly useless let em go and the replacement points will be better used filling up existing, healthy units.
Rule 4 for a new player: Never bring units forward during the first 3 turns. Create a set of delaying positions and rally troops there as they retreat use terrain, swamp/river/mountain etc.. in strategic choke points.
All new units and reserve troops MUST stay in your final defensive line. There's a few key points that are critical. Theres the holding position in the far North that's where the Russians can easily stop the finns by railroading a few units to the the 3 critical hexes in the first 2 turns no more than 3 units you'll be fine. Vet players are disgusted and give you mean looks but the position is secure. NoOb players will beat themselves to death and give you a few guard units.
The line Oranienbaum to Novgorod is a critical stop to defend Leningrad. Then the river line south of Novgorod - cover the first 3 or 4 hexes. Theres a free zone here to Smolensk just delay using terrain don't stand and always fall back when an enemy in division strength contacts you.
Next is the Landbridge covering Smolensk. Stack 4 high the first turn till the infantry get close. then its tricky stack 2 high with a single stack behind and a double behind that. never stack 3 high back to back as a loss routs you always allow room to retreat.
The river south to gomel can be held with single stacks that gives you units to form a second line on the river beyond when enemy inf arrive at the river its time to leave. same with the Dnepr line just remember if they cross in force run like hell and cover Kharkov and the Donitz.
Rule 5 for a new player: Relax, Its a game and oit takes a while to play itself out. think ahead. Vehicle factories are critical. Special factories for tanks and ground attack aircraft are vital as well. clear Leningrad and Kharkov immediately in that order. then Moscow and the Donitz basin.
Don't neglect air. Long range bombers and transports in VVS units set to night missions are what make your partisans work you gotta get those in serious action asap at all cost.
RE: 2 novices take on the campaign - a different AAR
Also use your ports to escape in AGN
RE: Turn 4 - Time to Run
They took out the 11th Army FBD till 42 so the Odessa route isn't really an option anymore most vets ignore it So holding Oddessa is a lot more viable now.
RE: Turn 4 - Time to Run
use the VVS unit in the crimea for nighttime air supply
RE: Turn 4 - Time to Run
Caeser Augustus recognizes Hermann & Loki100 with the title Stratego Maximus. Suitable stone is being quarried for their commemorative statues.
RKhan is promoted Centurian Primus Pilus (much more is expected.)
RKhan is promoted Centurian Primus Pilus (much more is expected.)
RE: Turn 4 - Time to Run
Thank you again for all of the posts and observations. I'm really enjoying the learning curve and figuring things out as I go. Turn 6 coming up.
RKhan
RE: Turn 6 - Across the Dnepr
South - top
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RKhan
RE: Turn 6 - Across the Dnepr
South bottom
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RKhan
RE: Turn 6 - Across the Dnepr
Some basic stats. Not sure if these are good numbers or bad but wow over a million casualties is a scary number. I guess a Russian player has to get used to that.
No factories lost yet.
No factories lost yet.
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RKhan
RE: Turn 6 - Across the Dnepr
Thoughts on Turn 6
I was actually starting to feel pretty good this turn, though that changed quickly in the next turn (foreshadowing!).
In the north he continues a big push between Vitebsk and Pskov (which has sadly fallen). I wasn't really counting on this despite my earlier posts; it seemed to me he had to go more north or south. As I result I lost more units in a not quite closed pocket. But I'm happy the panzers are not moving too fast towards Leningrad giving me time to layer on lots of units. I am probably deluding myself but I think the attack on this MP is working.
I had kept a couple units on that small port on the island off the Baltic coast in the hope of delivering an early Christmas present to thedrillsgt but he found me out this turn. Probably a dumb idea but hey, if he has to send in the infantry that far from the MLR that counts for something. Note how optimistic I was that Leningrad port would still be open!
In the center the panzers north of Vitebsk are finally rescued for good! Plucky little bastards. I hope it takes a while to top off the petrol tanks.
The big news is he has come across the Dnepr. It is a small penetration but I read it as the end of the river line defence if I don't want to get encircled. Once the infantry catch up to the panzers I know I can't hold out. I decide to fall back to the next river but I'm worried its not far enough.
Mud in the south! But it did me little good as not much was going on below the mud line. His main line of advance is clearly straight towards Kiev. The infantry is still a ways off the river so I'm hopeful I can hold a bit longer. I'm hiding strong mechanised forces in the swamp to fall on his flank if an opportunity arises. More optimism!
I have adopted the policy of expanding my pockets as much as possible to force his resupply to go as far as possible I have shown an example below. I hope the panzers nearest the river are at the very end of the supply tether or maybe a bit beyond. Note the brave unit near Rovno trying to cut the rail line, but he did not quite get there. I figure his main rail line must be here given the line of advance.
I was actually starting to feel pretty good this turn, though that changed quickly in the next turn (foreshadowing!).
In the north he continues a big push between Vitebsk and Pskov (which has sadly fallen). I wasn't really counting on this despite my earlier posts; it seemed to me he had to go more north or south. As I result I lost more units in a not quite closed pocket. But I'm happy the panzers are not moving too fast towards Leningrad giving me time to layer on lots of units. I am probably deluding myself but I think the attack on this MP is working.
I had kept a couple units on that small port on the island off the Baltic coast in the hope of delivering an early Christmas present to thedrillsgt but he found me out this turn. Probably a dumb idea but hey, if he has to send in the infantry that far from the MLR that counts for something. Note how optimistic I was that Leningrad port would still be open!
In the center the panzers north of Vitebsk are finally rescued for good! Plucky little bastards. I hope it takes a while to top off the petrol tanks.
The big news is he has come across the Dnepr. It is a small penetration but I read it as the end of the river line defence if I don't want to get encircled. Once the infantry catch up to the panzers I know I can't hold out. I decide to fall back to the next river but I'm worried its not far enough.
Mud in the south! But it did me little good as not much was going on below the mud line. His main line of advance is clearly straight towards Kiev. The infantry is still a ways off the river so I'm hopeful I can hold a bit longer. I'm hiding strong mechanised forces in the swamp to fall on his flank if an opportunity arises. More optimism!
I have adopted the policy of expanding my pockets as much as possible to force his resupply to go as far as possible I have shown an example below. I hope the panzers nearest the river are at the very end of the supply tether or maybe a bit beyond. Note the brave unit near Rovno trying to cut the rail line, but he did not quite get there. I figure his main rail line must be here given the line of advance.
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RKhan
RE: Turn 6 - Across the Dnepr
ORIGINAL: RKhan
Some basic stats. Not sure if these are good numbers or bad but wow over a million casualties is a scary number. I guess a Russian player has to get used to that.
No factories lost yet.
You look to be doing ok so far, mud sure helps in south.
Be carefull as rail heads get closer to the front Germany can still give you some nasty surpises.
Beta Tester WitW & WitE
RE: Turn 6 - Across the Dnepr
Loki, I have been reading Pelton vs. Brian G and I think you might be slightly unfair with regarding to his not wanting to help the Soviets.
His record keeping is so meticulous, a Soviet player would be well advised to study that AAR to learn what a top notch German commander is capable of doing.
His record keeping is so meticulous, a Soviet player would be well advised to study that AAR to learn what a top notch German commander is capable of doing.
RKhan
RE: Turn 7 - Caught Out
Total Loses, 1.4m
No factories lost
No factories lost
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RKhan