Submarines...

Admiral DadMan · Post by **Admiral DadMan** » Sat May 24, 2003 12:58 am

Uncommon Valor has begun to get it right as to handling sub attacks. In the last few weeks I have been re-reading Clay Blair's Silent Victory regarding USN SubPac operations.

Here are some of the things that I notice that might want to be considered for War in the Pacific:

Separate sub Commmands per Theater (SubPac, SubSWPac, etc.)
Singular home ports supported by a tender. (SubPac at Pearl Harbor, SubSWPac at Brisbane/Fremantle)
A fatigue factor that forces a sub to return to port and stay in port until reduced, much like damage.
The ability to assign a patrol sector that is more than one hex.

Well, it's a start.

Nikademus · Post by **Nikademus** » Sat May 24, 2003 1:15 am

Well "command locations" are simulated now in respect that subs can only replenish torpedoes in WitP if they are in a size 9 or 10 port 'or' if in a port that contains both a sub tender and adequate supplies. Since sub tenders tended to be based at the same location as the sub command, whereever your AS ship would technically represent the location of the sub HQ.

For 'patrols', remember each hex in WitP will be 60 miles, double that of UV's Thats a fairly large body of ocean to be tooling around in...however you can reproduce a 'patrol' by leaving them on computer control which will periodically shift the subs around a bit

Admiral DadMan · Post by **Admiral DadMan** » Sat May 24, 2003 1:23 am

Excellent. Will subs attack more than one ship in a TF?

Chiteng · Post by **Chiteng** » Sat May 24, 2003 3:23 am

Originally posted by Admiral DadMan
Excellent. Will subs attack more than one ship in a TF?

Well I think that is is WAY too easy to re-provision subs in UV.

Either use the tenders or restrict them to specific types of bases.

This BS that a level 1 ancorage on some shoal is enough is silly.

Admiral DadMan · Post by **Admiral DadMan** » Sat May 24, 2003 3:53 am

Originally posted by Nikademus
Well "command locations" are simulated now in respect that subs can only replenish torpedoes in WitP if they are in a size 9 or 10 port 'or' if in a port that contains both a sub tender and adequate supplies. Since sub tenders tended to be based at the same location as the sub command, whereever your AS ship would technically represent the location of the sub HQ.

As to tenders, each sub squadron had its own tender, is that reflected in game play?

Platoonist · Post by **Platoonist** » Sat May 24, 2003 4:45 am

I was curious as to whether Japanese midget subs would be represented. I know Kaiten weren't very effective (one ship sunk at Ulithi atoll) so including them might not be worth the effort but they would add a little color to the Japanese arsenal.

Drongo · Post by **Drongo** » Sat May 24, 2003 5:50 am

Posted by Admiral Dadman

As to tenders, each sub squadron had its own tender, is that reflected in game play?

Not at the moment but the game is not yet in its final form.

IMO, sub squadrons and a specific tender for each, is a nice detail but probably not necessary.

The scale of the game would mean that sub operations will be along historical lines -

Select a base for the particular theatre (ie Fremantle in Western Australia for the East Indies sub operations) and then dispatch supplies, fuel, the submarines and the tenders.

Will subs attack more than one ship in a TF?

Sub attacks are still the same as in UV. Once again, this may or may not change.

Even in UV, a sub can attack the same TF more than once during each of the day and night resolution phases. I've seen it happen and the manual says that it can. What a sub can't do is fire at more than one ship per attack.

Are you suggesting that a sub commander would attempt to torpedo 2 or more seperate ships at a time?

The ability to assign a patrol sector that is more than one hex.

I agree. I think giving a sub a specific, set patrol sector rather than a destination hex would be better. Having a "set and forget" sector that allows a sub to chase contacts within a certain radius would save on a lot of work. The existing UV methods of either manually placing subs like booby traps or sending them to a specific location and then switching to AI control, doesn't really get the results I'm after. The AI controlled subs always seem to get bored very quickly with their immeadiate surroundings and end up making for the major enemy ports instead.

mogami · Post by **mogami** » Sat May 24, 2003 6:54 am

Hi, Well the most effective salvo of torpedos ever fired was the IJN Sub that fired 6 torpedos and Hit the Wasp, North Carolina and a DD. Both the Wasp and the DD sank as a result the NC was gone for repair for over 2 months. Can't happen in UV/WITP

Platoonist · Post by **Platoonist** » Sat May 24, 2003 7:37 am

It's funny....thats the kind of freakish good luck which if it hadn't happened historically and had occurred as a game result somebody would have posted in the UV forum as an example of a "unrealistic" anomaly.