OT: Quiz on WWII

[KMCCARTHY]

Not a bad article. I never got to the point whee they should have shown up.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

I took that quiz before you posted. One of the questions was how many countries were involved in WWII. Their answer was 30. I came up with 37, but have realized that one of those was not accurate, namely Macedonia. I put a comment on the site to that effect. Here's my list (before correction):

Principal Contenders (8)
Germany, Soviet Union, Britain, France, Italy, Japan, China and the US
Independent Countries at the start either combatant and/or occupied during the war (29)
Czechoslovakia, Poland, Denmark, the Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, Norway, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Greece, Austria, Yugoslavia, Albania, Macedonia, Finland, Thailand, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Saudi Arabia, Ethiopia, Iraq, Iran, Mongolia and South Africa
Total: 37
It could be argued that Ethiopia was already occupied before the war began, but that I would say was a precursor to the war and Ethiopia is still referred to at the oldest independent country in Africa.

warspite1

I wouldn't include Austria in that list (she was part of Germany following the Anschluss) - and you could argue that Czechoslovakia be excluded too (although Slovakia would be included).

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

I took that quiz before you posted. One of the questions was how many countries were involved in WWII. Their answer was 30. I came up with 37, but have realized that one of those was not accurate, namely Macedonia. I put a comment on the site to that effect. Here's my list (before correction):

Principal Contenders (8)
Germany, Soviet Union, Britain, France, Italy, Japan, China and the US
Independent Countries at the start either combatant and/or occupied during the war (29)
Czechoslovakia, Poland, Denmark, the Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, Norway, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Greece, Austria, Yugoslavia, Albania, Macedonia, Finland, Thailand, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Saudi Arabia, Ethiopia, Iraq, Iran, Mongolia and South Africa
Total: 37
It could be argued that Ethiopia was already occupied before the war began, but that I would say was a precursor to the war and Ethiopia is still referred to at the oldest independent country in Africa.

Although regarded as colonies in the west, Burma, Malaya, India, Vietnam and several African countries contributed to the war and were distinct political entities from each other. No one would consider the inhabitants British or French citizens at the time, so they could be considered combatant nations.

Arguing the other way, weren't Ukraine, Byelorussia, Bulgaria, Romania etc. part of the Russian SSR empire before Sept 1939?

[wdolson]

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

I took that quiz before you posted. One of the questions was how many countries were involved in WWII. Their answer was 30. I came up with 37, but have realized that one of those was not accurate, namely Macedonia. I put a comment on the site to that effect. Here's my list (before correction):

Principal Contenders (8)
Germany, Soviet Union, Britain, France, Italy, Japan, China and the US
Independent Countries at the start either combatant and/or occupied during the war (29)
Czechoslovakia, Poland, Denmark, the Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, Norway, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Greece, Austria, Yugoslavia, Albania, Macedonia, Finland, Thailand, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Saudi Arabia, Ethiopia, Iraq, Iran, Mongolia and South Africa
Total: 37
It could be argued that Ethiopia was already occupied before the war began, but that I would say was a precursor to the war and Ethiopia is still referred to at the oldest independent country in Africa.

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
Although regarded as colonies in the west, Burma, Malaya, India, Vietnam and several African countries contributed to the war and were distinct political entities from each other. No one would consider the inhabitants British or French citizens at the time, so they could be considered combatant nations.

Arguing the other way, weren't Ukraine, Byelorussia, Bulgaria, Romania etc. part of the Russian SSR empire before Sept 1939?

Once you get beyond the principle combatants and their minor allies, the list of countries involved in the war gets open to a lot of interpretation. Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania were occupied by the USSR in 1940 when the USSR was technically neutral. The USSR then declared them to be part of the USSR and except when occupied by Germany, they were part of the USSR until 1990. So are they combatants or not?

Saudi Arabia contributed their wealth to the war effort, but as far as I know no Saudis did any fighting. Mexico and Brazil sent small units into the fray so they were technically US minor allies.

Bulgaria and Romania were separate countries before the war. They only came directly under Soviet influence after the war when the cold war started. Bulgaria was friendly with the USSR before the war and though technically allied with the Germans they refused to send troops to fight on the Eastern front. Instead their war effort went into providing mostly policing troops closer to home. The Ukraine, Belarus, and the various stans were all part of the Russian empire before the communist revolution and were part of the USSR from the beginning to the end.

Ethiopia could be considered a combatant. The king of Ethiopia escaped when the Italians invaded and it was his free Ethiopian troops that did a lot of the fighting in the reconquest of Ethiopia. Ethiopia is sort of like China, their war started before the world war officially began, but their war was settled as part of the overall global conflict.

Various colonies that were in the conflict is another gray area. In many cases the colonies were run as separate entities from their colonial overlords, though they were subservient to their colonial overlord's government. Do the Dutch East Indies count as a separate country? The home country didn't actually exist at the time. Brunei was sort of an independent country and sort of a British subject state.

Then there is the gray area about the Commonwealth. New Zealand, Australia, and Canada were separate countries from the UK, however the king of England was still their head of state and those countries needed to get permission from the UK to do some things. So were they separate countries or quasi-colonies? Even today 15 countries have governor generals who are the official representatives of the queen of the UK who speak for her in those countries. There have been a number of laws passed since the end of WW II that have further separated the UK from Commonwealth countries such as the 1982 Canada Act.

So where do you want to draw the lines for a question like that? You could come up with any number between about 12 and 50.

Bill

[BBfanboy]

Good answer Bill. The quiz should update the responses to the question to include "any number between 12 and 50". [:)]

[rustysi]

wow...Hitler had a nephew in USA??

Yup, lived right in my backyard. AFAIK some of the family still lives here, but they've changed the name somewhere along the line.

His nephew even tried to enlist in the U.S. during the war, but was denied.

[geofflambert]

ORIGINAL: wdolson
Once you get beyond the principle combatants and their minor allies, the list of countries involved in the war gets open to a lot of interpretation. Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania were occupied by the USSR in 1940 when the USSR was technically neutral. The USSR then declared them to be part of the USSR and except when occupied by Germany, they were part of the USSR until 1990. So are they combatants or not?

Saudi Arabia contributed their wealth to the war effort, but as far as I know no Saudis did any fighting. Mexico and Brazil sent small units into the fray so they were technically US minor allies.

Bulgaria and Romania were separate countries before the war. They only came directly under Soviet influence after the war when the cold war started. Bulgaria was friendly with the USSR before the war and though technically allied with the Germans they refused to send troops to fight on the Eastern front. Instead their war effort went into providing mostly policing troops closer to home. The Ukraine, Belarus, and the various stans were all part of the Russian empire before the communist revolution and were part of the USSR from the beginning to the end.

Ethiopia could be considered a combatant. The king of Ethiopia escaped when the Italians invaded and it was his free Ethiopian troops that did a lot of the fighting in the reconquest of Ethiopia. Ethiopia is sort of like China, their war started before the world war officially began, but their war was settled as part of the overall global conflict.

Various colonies that were in the conflict is another gray area. In many cases the colonies were run as separate entities from their colonial overlords, though they were subservient to their colonial overlord's government. Do the Dutch East Indies count as a separate country? The home country didn't actually exist at the time. Brunei was sort of an independent country and sort of a British subject state.

Then there is the gray area about the Commonwealth. New Zealand, Australia, and Canada were separate countries from the UK, however the king of England was still their head of state and those countries needed to get permission from the UK to do some things. So were they separate countries or quasi-colonies? Even today 15 countries have governor generals who are the official representatives of the queen of the UK who speak for her in those countries. There have been a number of laws passed since the end of WW II that have further separated the UK from Commonwealth countries such as the 1982 Canada Act.

So where do you want to draw the lines for a question like that? You could come up with any number between about 12 and 50.

Bill

The Soviet Union invaded Poland at the same time as Germany. Britain and France wisely chose not to declare war on the Soviet Union. If the Baltic states don't count, I guess Poland doesn't count either. What were we talking about? I can't remember.

[Orm]

I quit the quiz after the question on how many countries that were involved in WWII. I counted to more than 30 countries so I stopped counting and answered 41. When the answer was revealed as "30" with the text "more than 30 countries"... I was just to baffled and disgusted to continue the quiz. How can they have a correct answer that is lower than what they ask for even in their own count. [&:]

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

I took that quiz before you posted. One of the questions was how many countries were involved in WWII. Their answer was 30. I came up with 37, but have realized that one of those was not accurate, namely Macedonia. I put a comment on the site to that effect. Here's my list (before correction):

Principal Contenders (8)
Germany, Soviet Union, Britain, France, Italy, Japan, China and the US
Independent Countries at the start either combatant and/or occupied during the war (29)
Czechoslovakia, Poland, Denmark, the Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, Norway, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Greece, Austria, Yugoslavia, Albania, Macedonia, Finland, Thailand, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Saudi Arabia, Ethiopia, Iraq, Iran, Mongolia and South Africa
Total: 37
It could be argued that Ethiopia was already occupied before the war began, but that I would say was a precursor to the war and Ethiopia is still referred to at the oldest independent country in Africa.

I had Portugal, Turkey and Siam, as well as most in your list.

Edit: Would it be more correct to write Thailand instead of Siam?

[BBfanboy]

Portugal was neutral, not a belligerent. Not sure about Turkey but probably didn't have much military after being on the losing side in WWI (and busy building a new nation after centuries of Ottoman rule).

Not sure if the term Siam was still in effect for Thailand, but I think current day Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos came under the collective term "French Indo-China".

[geofflambert]

I think we've covered this well enough, many of those kind of quizzes actually have incorrect answers. Rather than begin a new thread to discuss the following OT issue, let me take over my own thread to ask about the following: I'm reading Barbara Tuchman's The First Salute and I found something troubling. She was an excellent historian, think The Guns of August, and I've read other stuff of hers and it is uniformly excellent. Here is a quote from The First Salute where she is discussing naval warships (British and French mainly) from the second half of the eighteenth century.

"Guns, measured by the weight of their cannonballs, were 12-42 pounders (frigates carried 4-6 pounders), with a maximum range of one mile when fired by 400 pounds of gunpowder.

Now 4 and 6 pounder guns were what horse batteries (cavalry) used and they were only (or mostly only) effective at scaring enemy infantry and bucking up your own infantry or cavalry. They were pop guns on a naval warship. A frigate might have some of these but their main battery at a minimum would be 12 pounders, and large frigates would be armed with 24 pounder long guns and 32+ pounder carronades (a carronade is sort of like a howitzer). Her descriptions of the handling of sail in maneuvers appears to be excellent but I don't know what to make of this.

Any thoughts?

edit: I'm having visions of my own excellence. This is not my thread and I'm trying to hijack it.

[CaptBeefheart]

Not the best quiz for reasons stated previously. Pulled a 25.

Cheers,
CC

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

I'm having visions of my own excellence. This is not my thread and I'm trying to hijack it.

I think Il Ducé is starting to affect you. Time to cut him loose!

[geofflambert]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

I'm having visions of my own excellence. This is not my thread and I'm trying to hijack it.

I think Il Ducé is starting to affect you. Time to cut him loose!

Who was that character in "Horatio Hornblower"? El Supremo, El Magnifico? That's me all the time.

[geofflambert]

This guy was da bomb

[geofflambert]

By the way, gorns live a very long time. I'm the guy who ransomed Santa Ana's leg.

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Portugal was neutral, not a belligerent. Not sure about Turkey but probably didn't have much military after being on the losing side in WWI (and busy building a new nation after centuries of Ottoman rule).

Not sure if the term Siam was still in effect for Thailand, but I think current day Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos came under the collective term "French Indo-China".

I had Portugal in my list because Portuguese Timor was occupied. So Portugal should qualify. Because otherwise, all colonies should be counted separately if the Home Country was in the war. And then there would be way more than 50 countries involved.

Turkey declared war on Axis during 1945 so they must be included.

Then there are most of South and Central America...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Timor

[aspqrz02]

Actually, they had quite a large military ... but not well equipped to fight a modern war.

Almost entirely leg infantry divisions, about 48-50+ (including separate Brigades counted as Division Equivalents) plus at least 2 Cavalry Divisions and some Armoured and Motorised units.

Phil

[Jorge_Stanbury]

don't ever forget Manchukuo... or the people's republic of Tannu Tuva