Havana Daydreamin (2017) v1.5 -- testing now!

[blahblab]

(!!Some Spoilers)
In case anyone is still reading this. Havana Daydreamin is my goto CMANO scenario and I must have played it 30 or more times. I was having issues with build v1.10 mixed with the original db build (417 I think). So I rebuilt with db 441. All seems fine but there are some pretty major differences in game balance taking place.

New DB 441

Typically US/HavPac air losses are 1:5 using the older db. In the new build, especially in the opening 15 minutes, that's 1:1 or 1:1.5, after 30 mins you can expect 1:3. A major change is the SA-21 Growler SAM which in the initial scenario was loaded with the shorter range (80nm) 48N6DM whereas in db 441 it's the long range (215nm) 40N6. This system is scarily deadly and you can expect a/c losses well into Florida, which pushes refuel, EW, and JSTARS way back North. It also tends to enjoy picking off EA-18G Growlers doing zone EW north of Key West. Once the SA-21 has shot it's first load of missiles it takes around 30 mins to reload, which is around when the US should have control of airspace north of Cuba. It then unleashes another round of missiles, in particular picking off F-15 RTB'ing to Homestead.

The US airfield magazines need to be rebuilt after the db rebuild. Also the ability to turn around the aircraft in 30 mins has changed, with 2 hours now being a more typical turn around time.

It's more difficult than built against the initial DB, but still fun and engaging.


General Lessons

Some general thoughts on the scenario. Firstly it's brilliant so thanks for the effort. But in general terms playing it over and over (and I tend only to play the first opening 2 hours, once the US has control of the air and all the long range SAM sites are dealt with) it offers up a few puzzles.

1. Overcoming the SAM defenses (typically my goal here is to have a type of rolling barrage towards the SA-21) is really tough. You just don't have enough HARM and AARGM equipped a/c. I think I read that in Desert Storm there was a point were ~150 HARM type weapons were in the air all at once. Maybe here if you got all the anti-radiation loaded F-18's and F-16's to do a mass unleash of missiles you may flood the SAM system. However the SA-21 would be picking the F-16's off like crazy.

2. Tomahawks. The world has moved on and the Tomahawk on it's own get's decimated in a mass launch. Whether it's the surface vessels using guns, Fulcrums, or the SAM defenses you can launch a mass Tomahawk attack from both US Surface groups and sit and see all but a couple get shot out of the sky.

3. Thaad and RIM-161. When operation ANVIL gets moving the Thaad battery hasn't sufficient response time stop it. You can order the Thaad to move further South after combat starts, but that's a little bit gamey. RIM-161's tend to get fired but not once have I seen them intercept the SS-26 Stone's due to the RIM's being targeted to intercept too far North. I assume this is because they cannot predict the SS-26 landing(target) point and calculate the intercept later in the SS-26 trajectory. It seems odd though.

4. In general terms the US has a great defensive anti-missile arsenal. But it's offensive air to ground weaponry tends to be very easily picked off. Tomahawk, JSOW, Harpoon, HARM, AARGM all seem to get shot down quite easily. I have better success with SLAMER and JASSM but that could be more to do with the eventual wearing down of the SAM defenses by the time these systems arrive on target.

6. The toughest HavPac fixed wing aircraft to take down are the MIG-29's that tend to enter the battle arena from the SW. I am not sure why this is but my guess is agility? I'll check some logs and see.

All in all it's a great scenario and I feel I have easily recovered the cost of my game. I think that the US probably would not put itself in a position like this, but then again who knows these days. A single Patriot system guarding Key West without a surface group in the locale I think would also be improbable but then again the aggressor would tend not to wait until you have everything in place to launch his/her attack.

I'm now going to start experimenting with the scenario. Moving the US surface groups and US Patriot and Thaad systems etc.

Great fun.

[wild_Willie2]

I just played and finished the old version under the latest build just yesterday and could only kill the existing SAM defenses after they ran dry. If you put in extra SAM magazine capacity, this scenario would be very hard to win in the current build.
Although the air combat got somewhat more difficult under the latest build, I still only lost 10 AC in air to air combat.

The key to killing mig-29's is to go to minimal altitude (they still have a bad radar), approach from head on and launch two AMRAAM's at 50 miles and you have a 80% kill chance.

There is no need to update the magazines as the original scenario also had no reloads.

Please post your updated scenario so we all can enjoy it

[Lakeend]

There is fair bit of digging dead thread but not sure if its against the rules here, didnt want to post new thread for one question.

Is it intended the Havana pact starts shooting mariners 3minutes in? Somehow as missiles strike marine traffic I get Event message saying "no overt threat of attack (expected)", wondering if the timeline of events has broken since the latest version?

[Nikel]

There is fair bit of digging dead thread but not sure if its against the rules here, didnt want to post new thread for one question.

Is it intended the Havana pact starts shooting mariners 3minutes in? Somehow as missiles strike marine traffic I get Event message saying "no overt threat of attack (expected)", wondering if the timeline of events has broken since the latest version?

Seems to be WAD, Feltan explains it in the first page.


https://forums.matrixgames.com/viewtopi ... 6#p3521036


Many examples in history and recently on how wars start, doing something you stated you were not going to do

[jason oates]

Hi all,
Feltan, Congratulations on the Scenario. Always one of my favourites.

However, I am getting a database not found error. Can anyone help?

[Nikel]

The scenario included in the CSP 50 is updated to DB v508.