DBB-C vs. AI

[bush]

I am a very slow moving and deliberate Allied player so I do not think I would be a good partner for a PMEM game. Hence, I am resigned to fight the AI.

In order to balance things out a bit I will use the following House Rules:

1st 6 months will be set to 4-day turns. This will give a definite adavantage to the AI, as well as help speed me through the slower part of the game. Every 6 months I will lesson the day by one as I will eventually have more items I will want to stay on top of.

ALL ship withdrawls will be done immediately. Some ships are out in TFs and will take some time to get to the proper port but they will be pulled ASAP.

No unescorted off-map shipping. Must have 2 x escorts for each TF.

Along with that, no ¨free¨off-map shipping. By that I mean I will physically ship any and all LCU and/or aircraft.

I will not use intel reports.

I will not pull units out of Malaya/DEI/Phillipines.

I know I´ve got a few others but I am at work and do not have my notes.


I am hoping to get some good advice along the way on tactics/operations as I proceed. I am very glad to finally be using the DBB-C set up. I owe it all to George (witqps) - my tech abilities are quite low.

[Jorge_Stanbury]

Bushpu, DBB-C doesn't have AI scripts; it might be a better idea to play DBB-A against the computer

[bush]

Hi Jorge,

There was quite a bit written about this not too long ago and a couple of DBB developers chimed in that it was okay to play this against the Jap AI. I don´t know if I can find that thread but if I do I send you the info.

Thanks,

Mike

[Yaab]

ORIGINAL: bushpsu

I am a very slow moving and deliberate Allied player so I do not think I would be a good partner for a PMEM game. Hence, I am resigned to fight the AI.

In order to balance things out a bit I will use the following House Rules:

1st 6 months will be set to 4-day turns. This will give a definite adavantage to the AI, as well as help speed me through the slower part of the game. Every 6 months I will lesson the day by one as I will eventually have more items I will want to stay on top of.

ALL ship withdrawls will be done immediately. Some ships are out in TFs and will take some time to get to the proper port but they will be pulled ASAP.

No unescorted off-map shipping. Must have 2 x escorts for each TF.

Along with that, no ¨free¨off-map shipping. By that I mean I will physically ship any and all LCU and/or aircraft.

I will not use intel reports.

I will not pull units out of Malaya/DEI/Phillipines.

I know I´ve got a few others but I am at work and do not have my notes.


I am hoping to get some good advice along the way on tactics/operations as I proceed. I am very glad to finally be using the DBB-C set up. I owe it all to George (witqps) - my tech abilities are quite low.

Here is Symon on DBB-C against AI. Post 15:
tm.asp?m=3573970&mpage=1&key=&#3573970

[Yaab]

I would also consider some other house rules:

- ships using off-map movement can only use their Cruise speed – slower tempo of off-map movement

- no shipping of fuel as cargo; fuel can only be transported by TK/AO/YO ships --- so, no fuel in xAKs EVER. Slower pace of operations, more escort assets tied to tankers, slower gameplay. xAKs can only haul aviation fuel/motor fuel

- amphibious invasions can only be conducted with AP/AK/APA ships (Symon’s house rule) - slower tempo of operations, amp ships need to be guarded more

- Alied TFs in CAP-ed ports are to be disbanded when they reach 10/10 or 9/9 detection. This is to avoid Nell and Betty air strikes reacting into CAP --- Japs have good pilots in the beginning, it is worth to keep them longer in play

[BBfanboy]

Yaab, there are a few Allied xAKs that have built-in tanks for fuel. Even when you set them to load supply cargo, they will still load that tank with fuel. That has to be OK as there does not seem to be a way around it. For an example, look at one of the 5800 ton capacity xAKs which is really 5600/200.

The invasion rule needs some clarification. Allied AKs are pretty rare birds in the game so an amphib force will need to bring some stuff on xAKs. Perhaps the rule should be that xAK types can only bring supply?

[Yaab]

Yes, those few xAKs that have built-in fuel tanks can carry fuel in them.

Yes, xAKs can bring supplies for troops riding on APs/APAs/AKs.

[Yaab]

There is one hardcore house-rule I use in DBB-c games against Jap AI.

I break Allied supplies into four pools: US (includes China and Phillipine), Commonwealth, Soviet and Dutch.

How does that work?

Simple, if I want a US combat LCU/air group/ships operate in India I need to bring adequate supply from Continental USA. If I want to fly supplies from Ledo to China, I need to ship supplies from continetal USA to Indiasince China uses US supplies. If a British unit wants to fight on Java it needs to bring it supplies from India/OZ/Off-map/Malaya.

Consider the consequences. At start, the CA Pensacola convoy is the closest supply source of US supply for Phillipines. Now, should I push this measly 1500 supplies the convoy carries to Manila or should I reroute it to somewhere safe?

CA Houston can now only resupply her big guns in Manila. She cannot take advantage of Sorebaja , cause the Dutch do not have the shells of her caliber. There is no AK around to feed her.Other than Manila, the closest US supply source is Pearl Harbor. What do I do with her? Is she a one-shot unit? A CA has a compliment of 1,500 men. Should I risk them for a one-shaot battle? What about CL Boise?

Consider Dutch. They have ZERO outside source of supply. You fight only with what is produced on Java. Sumatra has no supply sources AT ALL. If you want to make stand at Palembang, you need to rob Java of some its supplies.

This is hardcore,but it makes AI more competitive in a long run.

[bush]

YAAB,

Thank you for confirming what I thought Symon had stated about the scripts. Also, I like the additional rules regarding AKs not shipping fuel and using only AMPH ships for AMPH landings. Off-map using cruise was a no-brainer for me. The CAPed ports with TFs in them is something I would have never thought of, but will now use. However, since I am starting off with 4-day turns I may not get to disband all the TFs in time. Still, I will use it when I can. The other one about the 4 supply sources is interesting. I may include that also, at least to some degree.

Mike

[PaxMondo]

Are you using the extended or stock map with C?

[wdolson]

If there are no AI scripts for a scenario, you can copy the scen 1 scripts. I've found they usually work OK, especially for scenarios that don't deviate dramatically from the actual war.

Bill

[bush]

Pax - I am using extended map.

[DanSez]

ORIGINAL: bushpsu

I am a very slow moving and deliberate Allied player so I do not think I would be a good partner for a PMEM game. Hence, I am resigned to fight the AI.

Not all players are the slash and burn/ push the insane tempo/ stack all their planes and ships in one theater. You just have to find the right partner.

A JFB who is intermediate skilled and wanting to play a semi-historical perimiter defense just might be your huckleberry.

You need to find a Go-player, not a Risk-player.
Keep looking, there are a few out here.

[bush]

DanSez,

You mean there is a Johnny Ringo waiting out there?

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: bushpsu

Pax - I am using extended map.

So the AI files will work, but you need to understand that the AI does not know about all the new bases. So, it will neither defend nor attack those effectively.

I'm not contradicting what JWE stated as he is correct. However, if you use a different map, no matter what mod, unless you write scripts for those map changes, the AI cannot know about it.

Be aware and adjust your play accordingly or you will break the game fairly easily and quickly.

[Jorge_Stanbury]

In my experience playing DBB-A (extended map) against Allied AI; I haven't found any major issue with the extended map.
Sure there won't be scripts asking the AI to capture or defend any of the (few) new bases. But DBB scenario will normally start with LCUs guarding them (good examples are those in Malaya and the PI, maybe not so in the Solomons), so you will still need to fight to get them. And if defending, you can trigger the AI aggressive behavior by leaving these bases poorly defended, the AI engine (not the script), will then try to get them.

As PaxMondo said don't abuse them and you will be fine. This is the key to any enjoyable AI game

EDIT: by the way, in my most recent AI game, even though I am trashing the poor AI, it still managed to surprised me a few times and wiped out a couple (small) invasion fleets. Don't underestimate it [:'(]

[bush]

Thanks gents. I generally take it nice and easy to start. I enjoy putting a different emphasis in areas than was done historically, but I do not overburden the AI early or try to ¨trick¨it. The fun for me is organizing all the components and in my own mind justify why certain assignments are being made.

[bush]

[font="Tahoma"]Dec 7-10[/font]

Pros and cons for Pearl results. NO BBs sunk but all severely damaged. However, The Enterprise goes down just outside of Pearl. That hurts, but I gotta admit, I am not the admirer of the CVs in this game that most people are. Probably just relates to my playing style. I am NOT saying they have no value, just that they are simply one part of the tool chest.

Force Z escapes death, and even slammed some transports outside of Kuuantan.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

In my experience playing DBB-A (extended map) against Allied AI; I haven't found any major issue with the extended map.
Sure there won't be scripts asking the AI to capture or defend any of the (few) new bases. But DBB scenario will normally start with LCUs guarding them (good examples are those in Malaya and the PI, maybe not so in the Solomons), so you will still need to fight to get them. And if defending, you can trigger the AI aggressive behavior by leaving these bases poorly defended, the AI engine (not the script), will then try to get them.

As PaxMondo said don't abuse them and you will be fine. This is the key to any enjoyable AI game

EDIT: by the way, in my most recent AI game, even though I am trashing the poor AI, it still managed to surprised me a few times and wiped out a couple (small) invasion fleets. Don't underestimate it [:'(]

I think he is playing allies, so the issue is that in all those place, the IJ AI will not know to attack those new bases. He will have to abandon them.

[Jorge_Stanbury]

I think if he just left them poorly guarded, the AI will try to capture them, not the script, just the basic AI behaviour
AI likes to react to easy targets.. but I am talking about places like Utan Melitang or Subic bay; places that are going to be close to the normal AI path of conquest.
remote islands might need to be abandoned by the Allies and not exploited

maybe Bushpu can test ??