Data on tank effectiveness

[MTTODD]

Hi,

Thought people might be interested in Mid 80's tank assessment by Author Steven J. Zaloga in Osprey book T-64 Battle tank:

Combat technical value
T-72B 1.0

T-64B 1.1

T-80U 1.13

Challenger 1.31

M1A1 1.56

Does not match the values given to tanks in the game, especially how mighty the T-80U is in the game.

Interested in what people think, especially given the credibilty of the author.

[Stimpak]

What specifications did he rate the tanks on?

Armor? Weapons? Logistics?

[TheWombat_matrixforum]

Zaloga is a pretty divisive figure in the tank world, from what I can tell. I have a lot of his books, and some are definitely excellent, while others are sort of hit or miss. Some folks swear by him, others are deeply skeptical of his assessments.

I think anyone's assessment of mid-1980s tank effectiveness--considering the, um, paucity of actual combat between these tanks in anything approaching a full-on war, should be taken with a heaping tablespoon of salt.

[CapnDarwin]

A single composite rating without any explanation of how it is calculated doesn't mean much. If it a pure tech rating we are probably close based on use of thermals, fire control and other tech factors. If it's a combat rating conditions play a large part. We take a number of factors into account, including soft factors which I doubt are in that value. I'm not saying anything bad on Zagola, I have a good number of his books on the shelf as well. [8D]

[Mad Russian]

The 2 data sets aren't comparable.

Mr. Zaloga's data is around 30 years old. Much has been learned since then. Don't get me wrong, I have a lot of Mr. Zaloga's books in my library and have even talked with him personally on 2 occasions, but 30 year old data doesn't compare to what's available now about 30 year old equipment.

Good Hunting.

MR

[Stimpak]

You get around, huh? [:D]

[kipanderson]

Hi,

I too thought the Zaloga data I his T64 book a little old. Have seen it before.

We now know the three big variables such as armour, firepower/penetration of projectiles given exact date, and much more.

But as with Mad Russian many of his books are outstanding. Armored Champion is one such outstanding book.

BTW. For those who haven't tried this I sat in a T72 turret the other day. Not too cramped at all. If you imagine an average European car it is as if sitting in the drivers seats. You are same distances off the turret crew compartment floor and can stretch your legs out in front with your back close to back of the turret. You have just as much room to your left and right as in a car seat.

This my general experience of Soviet tanks. Sat in most of them. Turrets are OK. But drivers do need to be small to be comfortable. Under five foot seven certainty.

Great game,
All the best,
kip.

[Mad Russian]

ORIGINAL: Stimpak

You get around, huh? [:D]

Nothing too much. This hobby is pretty small. He's not the only author I've discussed things with. David Glantz is pretty accessable and so are several others. I looked up the author of a book one time in Portland Oregon and called him that night. We talked at length about a book on a tank battle he did in 1941 in the Ukraine.

Now, with the advent of Face Book you can usually reach people. The one I would spend hours with, Frank Chadwick, is busy being an author at the moment...[:(] otherwise, I pretty much have discussions with whoever I have a need to talk with.

That is a direct result of us being so accessible to you guys. Number 1 is because you paid us money for our product and that gives you direct access. Pure and simple. But, beyond that, the wargaming/history concerning the Cold War is a fairly small community. We like those that are in it.

As has been discussed here recently we answer every question and most comments because we read everything we can about what is said about the game. We have threads both for what we've done wrong so we can fix it and what we've done right so we don't lose sight of that.

Thanks to all of you for being a part of this journey. And while we may not always agree with what is said or proposed we appreciate all of you. [&o]

Good Hunting.

MR