When to surrender China?

[alexvand]

At what stage do you surrender China? In my current game China's having a pretty hard time of it. Here's what's left. Is it still worth keeping the Chinese in the game or do they fold? (I'm playing with Chinese Nationalist attack weakness.)

[paulderynck]

Really? Just survive until Japan can only take very few land actions while fighting the rest of the war and you'll get your revenge.

You should go on to the end. You should fight for Kweiyang, you should fight in Cheng Tu and Chungking, you should fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, you should defend your hinterland, whatever the cost may be. You should fight on the mountains, you should fight in the valleys, you should fight in the fields and in the streets, you should fight in the hills; you should never surrender. And if, which I do not for a moment believe, your hinterland or a large part of it were subjugated and starving, then in God's good time, the New World, with all its power and might, shall step forth to the rescue and the liberation of the old.

Actually if the writings on the wall that Japan is on the knife edge of DoWing the CW and the US AND - a key point - Japan is not at war with any other major power, then a surrender can be considered because:
a) it may give the US enough entry to pass War Appropriations and then if they move first do a pre-emptive DoW of their own, and
b) all the Japanese Reserve units will disappear from the map and come back face down only when Japan is at war again, and
c) in the meantime, Japan can only take Combined actions and their naval units are all one naval move apiece.

[Centuur]

That's quite some units the Chinese have on the map and they want to throw the towel in the ring already? That's cowardice in the face of the enemy! [:-] Someone needs to be executed for even wanting to surrender in this situation.



Only if China has only one factory remaining and the Japanese is stalling to take it, it may be right for the Chinese to surrender, for the reasons Paul has mentioned.

[AlbertN]

What I see in the screenshot above is hardly "hardtime" for China.
They've -tons- of units still, and Japan is in their high tide phase I assume. They'll need these white print units for Jungle attacks somewhere (Singapore?) or to start man islands or other offensive operations across the Pacific.

China in the screenshot has still a decent production (for Chinese standards).

Paul has summed up when it can be wise to surrender China suddenly (especially considering the precious 6-3 Marine is a Reserve, and other relevant white print units).
Either to gain some needed chits or to shove Japan into a "Combined only" status with a sudden disappearance of the Reserve units.

[Orm]

I hardly ever consider surrendering China. I rather let the Japanese work for it.

[Neilster]

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

Really? Just survive until Japan can only take very few land actions while fighting the rest of the war and you'll get your revenge.

You should go on to the end. You should fight for Kweiyang, you should fight in Cheng Tu and Chungking, you should fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, you should defend your hinterland, whatever the cost may be. You should fight on the mountains, you should fight in the valleys, you should fight in the fields and in the streets, you should fight in the hills; you should never surrender. And if, which I do not for a moment believe, your hinterland or a large part of it were subjugated and starving, then in God's good time, the New World, with all its power and might, shall step forth to the rescue and the liberation of the old.

Actually if the writings on the wall that Japan is on the knife edge of DoWing the CW and the US AND - a key point - Japan is not at war with any other major power, then a surrender can be considered because:
a) it may give the US enough entry to pass War Appropriations and then if they move first do a pre-emptive DoW of their own, and
b) all the Japanese Reserve units will disappear from the map and come back face down only when Japan is at war again, and
c) in the meantime, Japan can only take Combined actions and their naval units are all one naval move apiece.

Was that speech delivered by XerXil Winzton? [;)]

Cheers, Neilster

[Shannon V. OKeets]

One metric I like to use - often - when assessing a position is to simply count the combat factors in or near the front line for both sides. If you do this for this game, I think you will find that Japan doesn't really have that many more than China. Throw in that the mountains double defense, and China may have more if they are playing strictly on the defense.

The key here is that Japan is going to have to send many units to the coast pretty soon to prepare for invasions in the Pacific.

[brian brian]

A trick to defending China when Lan-Chow is threatened is to have the ChiComms send a division towards Cheng-Tu so they can convert it to Communist control so their units can still appear on the map....

[alexvand]

ORIGINAL: brian brian

A trick to defending China when Lan-Chow is threatened is to have the ChiComms send a division towards Cheng-Tu so they can convert it to Communist control so their units can still appear on the map....

I wish I had thought of that earlier! I've got 3 or 4 ChiComm corps sitting on the spiral and a whole bunch polluting the force pools!