Sqz, what was the detection levels on those bases you bombed?
I think it maybe easier to target and hit oil, and refineries, than resources. In fact I think resources maybe the most difficult to hit of all city targets.
If is very frustrating seeing 3 bombers hit with individual bombs, and you miss with four times the payload and many more bombers of what I am guessing is some pretty good skilled pilots.
In my experience LI is a bit harder to hit than Resources, all else equal.
Oil can be hard, but PBang is 900 Oil big. A bling man riding a cow could drop a pie on it. And he's at 1000 feet. The fields are square miles big.
I don't want to look back, but I recall the attack on the Natal tanks was from 15,000 feet? That's three miles up. A WWII IJA tank is about the size of a pickup truck, at least the ones I saw on Saipan. How large is a pickup truck at three miles? A BB? A pinhead? And while only two tanks were destroyed several score were disabled I think. That's a mission kill in the bush on a tank.
Sqz, what was the detection levels on those bases you bombed?
I think it maybe easier to target and hit oil, and refineries, than resources. In fact I think resources maybe the most difficult to hit of all city targets.
If is very frustrating seeing 3 bombers hit with individual bombs, and you miss with four times the payload and many more bombers of what I am guessing is some pretty good skilled pilots.
What are the resource levels at Hokkaido?
I agree that oil and refineries are some of the "easier" targets to hit and damage. Resources though, aren't too bad. I'd place them above the industry (especially light industry) in terms of damage per sortie (or whatever).
Size of the target also seems to matter. For example, you'll probably cause more damage to the resources at Melbourne (100 in stock), than say Wagga Wagga (20).
One other note, manpower bombing isn't very effective by itself, but a) it seems to be easy to get MP hits - especially with A/C that have small bomb loads. It is also more effective when the target is larger (both in terms of manpower and in terms of stuff to damage). Melbourne has a fairly high man power (25) and sizeable industry targets that burn.
I'm learning strategic bombing on the go, as it's something I've never really attempted before.
Detection level at Melbourne was 9/10, as it is searched daily. I flew high at Melbourne to avoid FLAK as I'm under the impression it's deadly at low altitudes in DBB, unless you have to use Japanese FLAK it seems. Sale was maybe at 2/10, and was more a spur of the moment target. I chose both targets due to the size of the industry, there was more to hit was my reasoning.
Here is what bombing did to Tamworth in comparison. Both industries are less than 30 in size. DL here was 9/10 as well.
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Morning Air attack on Tamworth , at 91,163
Weather in hex: Moderate rain
Raid spotted at 16 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 9
Ki-21-IIa Sally x 28
No Japanese losses
Light Industry hits 1
Aircraft Attacking:
28 x Ki-21-IIa Sally bombing from 6000 feet
City Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
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Night Air attack on Tamworth , at 91,163
Weather in hex: Light rain
Raid spotted at 34 NM, estimated altitude 6,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 9 minutes
Japanese aircraft
Ki-21-IIa Sally x 24
No Japanese losses
Light Industry hits 2
Aircraft Attacking:
24 x Ki-21-IIa Sally bombing from 2000 feet
City Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
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Morning Air attack on Tamworth , at 91,163
Weather in hex: Moderate rain
Raid spotted at 36 NM, estimated altitude 7,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 4
Ki-21-IIa Sally x 27
No Japanese losses
Resources hits 5
Aircraft Attacking:
27 x Ki-21-IIa Sally bombing from 2000 feet
City Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
The weather over both Sale and Melbourne obviously contributed being at severe storms. I'm guessing my continuing bad luck with weather is the biggest reason my results are consistently mediocre, and of course that is 100% out of my control.
Bullwinkle, here are the altitudes for the attack on the Natal's. Yes, too high for the Kate's, but the Val's were diving bombing and released at low altitude. I will just have to fly lower with level bombers in the future against targets with no FLAK.
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Morning Air attack on Natal Mtd Rifles Regiment, at 92,163 (Armidale)
Weather in hex: Heavy rain
Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 45
B5N2 Kate x 98
D3A1 Val x 88
Allied ground losses:
Vehicles lost 50 (2 destroyed, 48 disabled)
Aircraft Attacking:
6 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000'
Ground Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
23 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 9000 feet
Ground Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000'
Ground Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
15 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 9000 feet
Ground Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb
8 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000'
Ground Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
16 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 9000 feet
Ground Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb
8 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000'
Ground Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
21 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 9000 feet
Ground Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
Ground Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
23 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 9000 feet
Ground Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb
7 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000'
Ground Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
8 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
Ground Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
7 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
Ground Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
6 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000'
Ground Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
5 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000'
Ground Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
13 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000'
Ground Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000'
Ground Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
Ground Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000'
Ground Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
Follow up raids against the Natal's for two days in a row at 6k.
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Morning Air attack on Natal Mtd Rifles Regiment, at 91,163 (Tamworth)
Weather in hex: Thunderstorms
Raid spotted at 26 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 7
Ki-21-IIa Sally x 27
No Japanese losses
Aircraft Attacking:
27 x Ki-21-IIa Sally bombing from 6000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
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Morning Air attack on Natal Mtd Rifles Regiment, at 91,163 (Tamworth)
Weather in hex: Thunderstorms
Raid spotted at 45 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes
Japanese aircraft
Ki-21-IIa Sally x 24
No Japanese losses
Aircraft Attacking:
24 x Ki-21-IIa Sally bombing from 6000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
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Morning Air attack on Natal Mtd Rifles Regiment, at 91,163 (Tamworth)
Weather in hex: Moderate rain
Raid spotted at 19 NM, estimated altitude 6,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 7
Ki-21-IIa Sally x 27
No Japanese losses
Aircraft Attacking:
27 x Ki-21-IIa Sally bombing from 6000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
6k is my default for ground bombing troops, but if I have to fly lower to get hits I will.
I'm trying to understand why nothing is working for me in comparison to what my opponent does. I try not to game the mechanics, but flying at 1k is almost a guaranteed hit apparently and seems exploitive to me. That's my own moral compass I guess. If I have to fly just off the ground to get hits I will start to do it, because I'm getting awfully tired of causing no damage. I'm also a little tired of having most of my air missions occurring in severe weather. They might as well not even be flying.
Luck is the residue of design - John Milton
Don't mistake lack of talent for genius - Peter Steele (Type O Negative)
I would take a hard look at resource production across the held map and see if it is worth attacking that.
Most places I know stockpile resources just as a matter of course. If you kill 500 resource production but he still has 2 times what is needed to run the Light Industry then you are not getting the maximum benefit of bombing the LI directly.
If you are just going for points I dont know how it works.
Japan does not have great 4EB platforms with awesome bomb loads. Sometimes I attack as the Allies with all of my bombers and still achieve mediocre results, particularly in bad weather.
Strategic bombing as Japan is very tough, and it is hard to compare it to the Allied side with armored, durable bombers and bigger payloads.
No doubt. Bigger Bombload = higher accuracy (there was a thread about that on the main forum a while back). So hard to hit targets will probably not pay off. In my experience this is LI (especially small LI centers). Small resources (or small anything other than A/C production plants and refineries) are probably not worth the risk either. This is why I suggest firebombing Melbourne. If the MP center is big enough (and Melbourne's is 25 IIRC) and there is enough stuff to burn (Melbourne has 800+ LI and 200+ HI, again IIRC) it is probably your best bet.
You can (or at least I have) started rather large fires with small (naval bomber sized) bombloads. Those small A/C don't seem very good at much other industry bombing, but they can start fires on a large MP center.
If you are pulling out of Oz - consider before you do putting a max effort KB+LBA raid (maybe even with the option of multiday raid) on Melbourne. You can also hit what remains of Sydney once you give it back to him.
In Australia, I'm just looking for targets of opportunity to garner some strategic VP's before the big bug out.
I don't care what I am destroying, it's just for points at this stage. I thought targeting larger concentrations would score more hits, but that doesn't seem to be the case. It's moot anyway, two days in a row and no night bombing attacks have flown in Australia.
The Dutch were over Palembang again though. No hits were scored, but neither AA or Oscar's on night CAP were a factor in destroying any bombers. I'm glad for no hits, but I think it was just a bad roll for Francois more than anything I did.
As to mounting large raids over Melbourne, I probably won't. Francois' committed his best fighter pilots to the theatre and Japanese sweeps have been underwhelming. I fear a large raid against any well defended base in Australia would simply shred my pilots. There are 80+ Allied fighters at Wagga Wagga and well over a 100+ at Melbourne. I just have to admit that Australia has turned out to be a monumental mistake following my poor play and loss of focus. At this stage, I'd be throwing good money after bad. I just want to get off the continent and put it behind me. I have many more pressing problems and I need the forces from Australia to deal with them all.
Luck is the residue of design - John Milton
Don't mistake lack of talent for genius - Peter Steele (Type O Negative)
It's true, if you set your standards very low and expect the AI to do something stupid, it will and it doesn't hurt so much.
KB launches three naval air attacks today, two make sense, the third doesn't. I really don't understand the reasoning behind target and attack force selection in this game. My own fault for having KB set to naval attack and approaching Port Moresby blind. After the afternoon Val strike I almost let myself feel good, but then KB also launched against Port Moresby. 18 KB pilots lost, 12 Kate and 6 Zero aircraft lost on a meaningless attack against stupid AM's. Radar was the deciding factor in this action, otherwise the Allied CAP was too high. I had ordered a sweep of Port Moresby as insurance against the AI doing something stupid, but of course it didn't launch due to weather. I've been burnt so many times with KB launching against meaningless targets, I'm almost numb to it.
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Morning Air attack on TF, near Cooktown at 92,137
Weather in hex: Light rain
Raid spotted at 16 NM, estimated altitude 17,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 16
D3A1 Val x 9
No Japanese losses
Allied Ships
xAK Johanne Justesen, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires
AE Pyro, Bomb hits 1, on fire
xAK Centaur, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
Aircraft Attacking:
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
5 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
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Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Cooktown at 92,137
Weather in hex: Severe storms
Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 8
D3A1 Val x 13
Japanese aircraft losses
D3A1 Val: 1 damaged
Allied Ships
PC Zeeman, Bomb hits 3, and is sunk
AE Pyro, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
Aircraft Attacking:
6 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
7 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
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Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Port Moresby at 98,130
Weather in hex: Moderate rain
Raid detected at 117 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 49 minutes
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 32
B5N2 Kate x 23
Allied aircraft
Spitfire Vc Trop x 6
P-40E Warhawk x 16
Allied Ships
AM Mildura, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
Aircraft Attacking:
12 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 45cm Type 91 Torp
CAP engaged:
No.453 Sqn RAF with Spitfire Vc Trop (0 airborne, 4 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 24000 , scrambling fighters to 9000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 32 minutes
24th PG/17th PS with P-40E Warhawk (0 airborne, 4 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 25000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 18 minutes
3rd PS (P) with P-40E Warhawk (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 25000 , scrambling fighters between 6000 and 13000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 27 minutes
4 planes vectored on to bombers
Luck is the residue of design - John Milton
Don't mistake lack of talent for genius - Peter Steele (Type O Negative)
Look at it in terms of VPs. It looks like you traded about 1:1, if you lost 18 aircraft... did he lose 18 points in ships and planes? If so, that's a pretty decent (albeit very small) trade. 18 pilots along with all 18 planes would suck, but it's not the end of the world.
Look at it in terms of VPs. It looks like you traded about 1:1, if you lost 18 aircraft... did he lose 18 points in ships and planes? If so, that's a pretty decent (albeit very small) trade. 18 pilots along with all 18 planes would suck, but it's not the end of the world.
Or the AI could have never sent the raid against Port Moresby and we wouldn't be having this conversation. [:D]
Luck is the residue of design - John Milton
Don't mistake lack of talent for genius - Peter Steele (Type O Negative)
Japanese troops ashore at Port Moresby. Landings are preceded by an effective naval bombardment. The amphibious landing goes ahead and is met by the Allied defence. AAR's follows:
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Night Naval bombardment of Port Moresby at 98,130
Assaulting units:
NG Vol Rifles Battalion
2/1st Ind Coy
30th Australian Brigade
13th RAAF Base Sqdn
Papuan Inf Battalion
13th Fld RAA Regiment
Moresby RAN Stn Base Force
Darwin RAAF Base Force
Rabaul Base Force
Defending units:
8th Tank Regiment
2nd Engineer Regiment
33rd Div /6
Depending on forts, I don't see this defence as anything to be concerned about, however, I also thought that of Ambon and that base is still in Allied hands. I take nothing for granted anymore. The first naval bombardment TF will use up its remaining ammunition before sailing for Rabaul to replenish. A second naval bombardment TF will target Port Moresby tomorrow as well. A third and fourth naval bombardment TF made up of heavy cruisers will provide additional firepower if necessary. I do not want to be bogged down in New Guinea.
In Australia, Cairns is captured. AAR follows:
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Ground combat at Cairns (92,140)
Japanese Deliberate attack
Attacking force 4186 troops, 26 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 126
Defending force 1582 troops, 17 guns, 12 vehicles, Assault Value = 9
Allied ground losses:
224 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 33 destroyed, 5 disabled
Engineers: 7 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 9 (9 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Vehicles lost 11 (11 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units retreated 3
Defeated Allied Units Retreating!
Assaulting units:
57th Infantry Regiment
Defending units:
Bowen RAN Stn Base Force
14th RAAF Base Sqdn
Townsville RAN Base Force /1
Allied units are probing towards Goulburn, so I suspect Francois senses a pending withdrawal and wants to be in position to move forward quickly. It may not be the smartest decision, to completely withdraw from Sydney, but it would be a nightmare to defend. I think it is in my best interest to pull out, reorganize, and finally deal with the DEI and the Philippines. Had I planned and executed better, I believe I could have taken Melbourne after Sydney. My mistakes and failures in the campaign are there for all to see, and clearly show that the only person that beat me in Australia...was me.
Luck is the residue of design - John Milton
Don't mistake lack of talent for genius - Peter Steele (Type O Negative)
Lots of Allied movement around Sydney with small armoured units pressing forward. I'm not sure I can get away without any losses, as some units will have to remain as a rearguard. Providing I can save all the larger combat LCU's I'll be happy. I expect heavy Allied air attacks to disrupt my movements.
KB is heading back towards Australia. The first ground assault will be launched against Port Moresby tomorrow. I believe I will need to reinforce if the base is to be taken quickly. Every transport capable of transporting troops is heading to the Australian coast.
In China, Wuchow is probably 4 days away from being assaulted. It's held by a single weak Chinese force. Then the march on Kweilin will begin.
Luck is the residue of design - John Milton
Don't mistake lack of talent for genius - Peter Steele (Type O Negative)
I made a costly mistake today. I've been caught by this a few times and did it to myself again. I haven't been paying proper attention when ordering movement orders to large stacks of troops, because the bug of not actually selecting the unit you clicked on, means I'm sending the wrongs units at times. Instead of sending a base force and an artillery regiment heading north, I sent two infantry regiments. The garrison requirement at Sydney dropped well below the 320 level, and the base was hit immediately with 61% airfield and port damage. Ouch.
This could mean IJA 9th Infantry Rgt. and IJA 4th Division have trouble getting away. I've left the air units in place to provide CAP, but if I am heavily attacked in the air today I will be at a big disadvantage because of the damage. I may have to pull out the air units quickly. Just another dumb thing I've done to add to the list.
All this being said. Pulling out is the right decision. I will go into much more detail about why I failed in Australia, but I feel so much better knowing I'll get my game back on track by withdrawing.
The first assault against Port Moresby achieved 1:1 odds and dropped forts to level 2. I'll rest a day and attack again. I may still reinforce to take the base quickly, but I'll have another round of battleship bombardments in a few days which may tip the balance.
Luck is the residue of design - John Milton
Don't mistake lack of talent for genius - Peter Steele (Type O Negative)
ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon
The garrison requirement at Sydney dropped well below the 320 level, and the base was hit immediately with 61% airfield and port damage. Ouch.
Wow!
Have to say, I have never seen that much damage on a base due to lack of garrison in one turn. Ever.
And I am someone who routinely does NOT garrison bases in conquested areas that I don't intend to keep ....
I lose 4 - 6 VP/day on that for weeks at a time ... and I see generally 5 - 15% damage ... maybe. 61% ????? [X(]
ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon
The garrison requirement at Sydney dropped well below the 320 level, and the base was hit immediately with 61% airfield and port damage. Ouch.
Wow!
Have to say, I have never seen that much damage on a base due to lack of garrison in one turn. Ever.
And I am someone who routinely does NOT garrison bases in conquested areas that I don't intend to keep ....
I lose 4 - 6 VP/day on that for weeks at a time ... and I see generally 5 - 15% damage ... maybe. 61% ????? [X(]
It was a shock to see such a high penalty. My own fault though, but it does force my hand.
Attachments
Sydney.jpg (59.3 KiB) Viewed 745 times
Luck is the residue of design - John Milton
Don't mistake lack of talent for genius - Peter Steele (Type O Negative)
Here is a screenshot showing the immediate Japanese tactical objectives in China. Four divisions are tasked with clearing the wooded hex northwest of Changsha, which will allow closure of the final hex side into the base and completely isolate the garrison. A single division can then invest Changteh, while the other three divisions redeploy to Kweilin.
IJA 23rd Army forces are shown moving to Wuchow. Two divisions will seize the base against a weak garrison. Upon capture, these two divisions will reinforce a third to clear the Chinese forces holding the crossroads in 3x defensive terrain. Once clear, all three divisions will move against Liuchow. IJA 23rd will then link up with IJA 13th Army forces and capture Kweilin. The next few months in China could prove decisive in the east. Upcoming plans to deal with Burma may allow maximum pressure to be brought to bear against China by June/July.
Attachments
China03042.jpg (234.36 KiB) Viewed 745 times
Luck is the residue of design - John Milton
Don't mistake lack of talent for genius - Peter Steele (Type O Negative)
Even though I am a fan of the Allies and have been silently rooting for Francois while reading both of your AARs, I find it sad that you have decided to pull out of Australia.
If your spirits get down, just remember that you sure made it exciting for me and many others to enjoy and read.
Best Regards,
-Terry
"No one throws me my own guns and tells me to run. No one."
Even though I am a fan of the Allies and have been silently rooting for Francois while reading both of your AARs, I find it sad that you have decided to pull out of Australia.
If your spirits get down, just remember that you sure made it exciting for me and many others to enjoy and read.
Best Regards,
-Terry
I know I've been frustrated this game, but it really comes down to my play. In this case, I needed a lot of other things to go well to make the Australian campaign a success. I was so focused on getting to Australia quickly and taking Sydney, that I lost sight of what else needed to be done. I definitely will go into more detail as to what I did wrong and what I believe I should have done instead...another time. I didn't make the decision to withdraw from Australia lightly, but I think it is the smart thing to do in order to enjoy the rest of the game. I can't accomplish much more in Australia, the chance to do anything meaningful has passed. The failure to destroy the Sydney garrison upon capture and exploit the situation with a direct move on Melbourne was what needed to be done, and I didn't. The decision to withdraw isn't a petulant one on my part, but rather a lucid examination of the situation and the realization that I over-reached, or at least didn't think everything through as I should have.
I hope the game will still be exciting to follow. I just need to secure my perimeter and then I can explore some other options I've thought about. I think with better planning and execution on my part, I could have accomplished much more in Australia, I just wasn't up to the task at the time.
Luck is the residue of design - John Milton
Don't mistake lack of talent for genius - Peter Steele (Type O Negative)
