New Units for PC

[mkrass]

I've checked almost all the units of the mod for SC and IMHO graphics for two units from R35's list are already in the mod:

SU-11 is ZSU-37 and
37 PstK/36 is 37mm_wz_36 (in Polish units)

[R35]

ORIGINAL: mkrass

I've checked almost all the units of the mod for SC and IMHO graphics for two units from R35's list are already in the mod:

SU-11 is ZSU-37

Thanks alot! That`s a very good find. I will adjust the entry and I think I`ll keep the name as ZSU-37, given that the SU-11 was just a prototype.

37 PstK/36 is 37mm_wz_36 (in Polish units)

Well, yes, the Finnish 40 ItK/36 and 37 PstK/36 are local designations of the commonly available Bofors anti-aircraft and anti-tank guns. Poland, among other factions is also using them. The problem is that H.Balck`s graphics contain the crew and I think the Polish uniform looks nothing like the Finnish one. Editing the graphics would be no big deal for anyone with basic 2d skills, but H.Balck does not allow that in a public mod (among other things).

Btw, has the soviet mountain transport (with mules) ever been released? I have two soviet mountain guns, but with no specific transport I don`t think it`s worth the effort to add them.

[Kompolka]

R-35
Soviet Mountain Transport
tm.asp?m=3958374&mpage=12&key=

[R35]

Thanks! I`ve located the file now.

[R35]

Could someone please suggest what transport to use for the 76.2mm M1927 regimental gun? From what I`ve read it was towed by horses and also tractors so I`m open to suggestions as to what the later might be.

[Karaganov]

ORIGINAL: R35

Could someone please suggest what transport to use for the 76.2mm M1927 regimental gun? From what I`ve read it was towed by horses and also tractors so I`m open to suggestions as to what the later might be.

Small Horse
Light artillery tractor Pioneer
T-20 Komsomolets
Dodge WC

[R35]

Thank you!

Light artillery tractor Pioneer

Do we have such a thing?

Btw, should I give any transport to the recoiless guns used by the paratroopers? And if so which transport?

EDIT: also, we have a Siberian Infantry apparently. I personally see no reason why such a unit should exist (unless we also add the Krasnodar infantry [8|] ) and I have no idea how it should be different from the Soviet Regular infantry, but since it`s already there, what do people want to do with this unit?

[Brazenman]

ORIGINAL: R35

Light artillery tractor Pioneer

Do we have such a thing?

No, we do not have such a unit. Sorry Karaganov. I completely forgot about this unit.

ORIGINAL: R35
Btw, should I give any transport to the recoiless guns used by the paratroopers? And if so which transport?

Maybe Horch?

ORIGINAL: R35
EDIT: also, we have a Siberian Infantry apparently. I personally see no reason why such a unit should exist (unless we also add the Krasnodar infantry [8|] ) and I have no idea how it should be different from the Soviet Regular infantry, but since it`s already there, what do people want to do with this unit?

Sibirian Divisions of the Red Army were formed from the Siberian and Turkic peoples of Asia. All Siberians were hereditary hunters, they were stalwart and hardy soldiers. Siberians are well oriented themselves on the ground. These guys have had a completely different mentality, they are not accustomed to retreat.

According to a number of Soviet military leaders (such as Rokossovsky) - Soviet troops in Siberia and the Far East were best prepared (than the troops in the western and central districts) for combat operations.

Eight fresh Siberian divisions perfectly proved in the counteroffensive at Moscow in winter 1941.

But I think that this unit should not be available for hire. This elite unit.
This improved version of the regular infantry. Just as the border guards were an improved version of NKVD troops.

[R35]

Thank you!

ORIGINAL: Brazenman
Maybe Horch?

Can you be more specific about the unit`s name?

Has the SdKfz 2 been released?

Sibirian Divisions of the Red Army were formed from the Siberian and Turkic peoples of Asia. All Siberians were hereditary hunters, they were stalwart and hardy soldiers. Siberians are well oriented themselves on the ground. These guys have had a completely different mentality, they are not accustomed to retreat.

Yeah, but that`s like saying units recruited from Moscow should be better at urban combat. You can have the same argument about the highlanders being better prepared for military life than the people from the London region and so on. In my opinion, if a unit is not equipped and/or trained radically differently form the other units in the same class, than it`s not a special case, no matter from which manpool it takes its soldiers. Otherwise, all nations should have such a thing.

Anyway, I`ll add it as a bonus unit so people have a graphical extra when playing campaigns and will see in what way it can be distinguished in terms of unit stats.

Btw, how has Karaganov implemented the Mountain cavalry in his mod? Alpine movement and 5 hex movement?

[Brazenman]

ORIGINAL: R35

ORIGINAL: Brazenman
Maybe Horch?

Can you be more specific about the unit`s name?

Kfz 69 Horch

ORIGINAL: R35
Has the SdKfz 2 been released?

tm.asp?m=3958374&mpage=13&key=

ORIGINAL: R35
Btw, how has Karaganov implemented the Mountain cavalry in his mod? Alpine movement and 5 hex movement?

I understand that you need this

Movement for Mountian Horse
Hills 2 2 3
Mountains 3 -50 -50
High Mountains -50 -100 -100

[R35]

ORIGINAL: Brazenman

tm.asp?m=3958374&mpage=13&key=

I don`t see it. What is the number of the post?

I understand that you need this

Movement for Mountian Horse
Hills 2 2 3
Mountains 3 -50 -50
High Mountains -50 -100 -100

Oh, he made a special movement type for it. Thanks alot! Those values really hep.

[Brazenman]

ORIGINAL: R35

I don`t see it. What is the number of the post?

Sorry, I made a mistake
SdKfz 2 - it is unit new generation.

[Brazenman]

R-35

H.Balck wrote:
OK - if R-35 really include all units (also all polish ) than you can send him all my units - and some new needed.

[Svetlanka]

ORIGINAL: Brazenman

H.Balck wrote:

You can answer also:

Why should I work for other persons projects ?
Nobody gives me critics and join as Multiplayer with my scenarios and my own campaign.

It would be interesting to play against you, if you create a scenario with the participation of the Red Army. Guadalajara and Mlava is a good scenarios, but they did not interest me. Sorry but I want to play for the Red Army. If you make scenario about the Winter War, or about battle of Khalkhin-Gol, then many Russian guys will be happy to play against you!

ORIGINAL: Brazenman

H.Balck wrote:
I work no more for the boring Vanilla game and not for fast spewed out soviet campaign.
Its a insult to play this unhistorical soviet maps. I am annoyed that I bought it.

Here I agree with you. These maps do not stand up to scrutiny.

[Svetlanka]

ORIGINAL: Brazenman

R-35
I so understand that the developers did not possess historical information.

Guard - this honorary title for the most distinguished parts.
As part of the Red Army were:
Rifle Division and Guards Rifle Divisions
Motorized Rifle Divisions and Guards Motorized Rifle Divisions
Cavalry Division and Guards Cavalry Division
Cossack Cavalry Division and Guards Cossack Cavalry Division
Armored Brigades and Guards Armored Brigades
Artillery Regiments and Guards Artillery Regiments
Aviation Divisions and Guards Aviation Divisions
Mountain Divisions and Guards Mountain Divisions
Motorcycle Regiments and Guards Motorcycle Regiments
Mortar Regiments and Guards Mortar Regiments
and so on

They had to duplicate the whole range of units of the Red Army
Or just do not do special units for Guards.

I also thought about it. And I can not understand why developers can not hire a good historian? Why would they do fantasy?

[Svetlanka]

ORIGINAL: Brazenman

R-35

H.Balck wrote:
OK - if R-35 really include all units (also all polish ) than you can send him all my units - and some new needed.

Oh, it's great news! I very much hope that we can see all new Soviet units in the mod of R-35!

[R35]

The main reason PzC developers do "fantasy" as you call it is because the game is meant for the casual gamer, who doesn`t care about tons of units in his game and just wants some quick relaxation from time to time. The reality is that not that many people are willing to sink in thousands of hours of their life into a WW2 game. You can see it around the modding forums: the stricter and more elaborate the game becomes, the smaller its fan base. It simply makes no sense from an economical point of view (remember that this is a business to them) to put much more time and resources into making a product that sells to a smaller base. It`s a simple matter of return on investment. These aren`t historical accuracy orientated decisions, they`re marketing decisions.
If you read the developer`s older posts you`ll see they don`t add units that overlap each other. I.e. two units that do the same thing. It`s the reason why the soviets don`t have a Maxim machine-gun/HW infantry in game. They already had the Guards infantry. Basically, they would add a unit only if it seems interesting enough for the general public and also if it takes a unique niche. The idea being to have a balanced unit roster for all playable factions. For a soviet equipment connoisseur it might be great to have four 122mm guns for historical reasons, but the vast majority of people have never really heard of many of these and for them deciding which to buy in game is strictly a matter of comparing the unit stats and costs to judge the benefits. If there are many such units, the job becomes tedious, confusing and ultimately boring.

About the Polish units. Even though I really don`t want to work on reworked units anymore (because they get reworked again anyway) I would have implemented the new set of Polish units. But there are several problems with this lot.
1. the armoured train Danuta does not have a direct fire/AT version.
2. the PZInz_302T is not included with the new camouflage.
3. the machinegun armed Wz. 34 armoured car is not included and we need it. 2/3 of all Wz.34 cars were actually armed with machine-guns, not cannons:
http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/p ... h_wz34.php
4. I think that, in game terms, the 75mm wz.18-24 mounted anti-aircraft gun loses its mobility purpose if we make it switch to a drive mode. I would prefer to have it as a simple mounted gun which can deploy quickly and ignore the driving switch.
5. you`ve made a machine-gun armed Wz.29 and a 37mm gun armed version of it. We don`t really need the machine-gun version.
In reality all Wz.29 had both a gun and one (previously they had two) machine gun in the turret. Much like some of the Japanese tanks the gun and machine gun were not on the same side of the turret so in many pictures you only see one or the other, but there were not two versions of the Wz.29. Not to mention that only 10 of these cars were built (besides the prototype) and by September 1939 only 8 were used so it makes no sense creating two different units out of them.
http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/p ... _ursus.php
6. the TKW 2 looks cool, but it didn`t exist it seems. There was a TKW prototype, but it was judged unsuccessful so no other conversions were made and the prototype was dismantled and it saw no action:
http://derela.republika.pl/tkw.htm
Also, if you read the comment under this article you can read this:

A TKW-II with 20mm gun seems only an “invention” of one model manufacturer, and there didn’t exist such vehicle.

http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/p ... te_TK3.php
So, there was no TKW 2.
7. I can`t include the latest Polish cavalry because you depicted them with lances as they appear in maneuver games. That is not their war equipment, and, even if it were, we don`t have a spear animation in the game. [8|] I suggest we continue to use the existing Polish cavalry (the one armed with rifles) because it looks absolutely fine.

Also, if we really want to have a job well done and finally finish this faction, how about adding two more units:
- the Polish 75mm wz. 36 anti-aircraft gun
http://www.1939.pl/uzbrojenie/polskie/a ... index.html
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 0#p1449596
It was significant enough, even if it wasn`t available in great numbers (the Polish article says 52 were produced).
- and also a Polish KOP infantry
https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korpus_Ochrony_Pogranicz


In short, I think we don`t need the following units:
- Wz.29 armed with machine gun
- TKW 2
- 75mm wz.18-24 in drive mode
- Polish Cavalry (we`ll keep using the old one)

and we need the following
- AT version of the armoured train Danuta
- PZInz_302T
- Wz.34 armed with machine-gun
- 75mm wz. 36 anti-aircraft gun
- KOP infantry

If you agree with these proposals I could implement the new Polish set so we finally have peace of mind regarding this faction.

[Brazenman]

Citroen Type 23 (reworked !)
Should be the main french transport for motorized Infantry yet!

Link
https://www.sendspace.com/file/eq5jd3

H.Balck wrote:
For R-35: What is with all the polish transport vehicle typs you never included ???

[R35]

ORIGINAL: Brazenman
H.Balck wrote:
For R-35: What is with all the polish transport vehicle typs you never included ???

I presume you`re referring to the 5 vehicles from your latest batch. They are extra to the transports that we had previously and would need research in order to implement them. I need to know the speed, range, entry into service date and most importantly, what were they used for. It takes alot of time because articles on transport vehicles are usually harder to find than those on tanks and aircraft for example. To top it all, in the case of the Polish army the matter is even more obscure and it involves going to polish sites/articles and translating the info there.

The vehicles in question are the following:

C4P S
Fiat 621R
Ursus A30
Wz.34 halftrack
Wz.34 halftrack open

I`ve no idea at the moment what the difference is between the regular C4P and the C4P S or between the two Wz.34 halftracks. What were they towing? If someone has already researched the units above and can sort them out for me, implementing them would be easy.

[Kompolka]

ORIGINAL: Svetlanka

ORIGINAL: Brazenman

H.Balck wrote:

You can answer also:

Why should I work for other persons projects ?
Nobody gives me critics and join as Multiplayer with my scenarios and my own campaign.

It would be interesting to play against you, if you create a scenario with the participation of the Red Army. Guadalajara and Mlava is a good scenarios, but they did not interest me. Sorry but I want to play for the Red Army. If you make scenario about the Winter War, or about battle of Khalkhin-Gol, then many Russian guys will be happy to play against you!

+1
But it should not be done such a long scenario as the Battle for Crimea, not everyone has the time and patience to plaing it to for a few months.