Tale of the Sheep! - JocMeister (A) vs. Lowpe (J)

[JocMeister]

[font="Verdana"]Logistics[/font]
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This might be a bit boring but unless you get this up and running there will be no pew pew. [:D]

The allied logistics are now up and running in full strength. As usual I never use the CT-Perth route besides from the odd 3-4 ship convoy moving some supplies. I´m mostly hoping Jeff will find a few and devote lots of effort to find more! [:D] Not sure why some Japanese players (and Allied) thinks this route is "essential"? CT doesn´t get enough fuel for it to be meaningful (250/day which is barely enough to keep the ships topped off). So if you use that route you would have to ship a lot of fuel from Abadan to CT which adds a LOT of travel time for that fuel. Besides Abadan is already a huge bottleneck. So why add more to that?

Instead send a lot of the tankers at CT to Cristobal and let them work the Cristobal (800 fuel/day) to Auckland route. I´m sure if you crunch the numbers there are more "efficient" ways to do it. But as the allies you don´t have to be "efficient". You have so much capacity you can afford to take longer routes in exchange for safety.

By going Cristobal - Auckland you can do most of the trip behind an allied NavS umbrella minimizing the risk of raiders. You can also set up refueling stations in places like Hiva Oa and Tahiti. Refuel your convoys on the return leg using "minimal refuel" to decrease fuel usage and base some raider protection along the route. I currently have a CA force at Hiva Oa and Suva. Some DDs and ASW TF are based at Tahiti.

Troop convoys get escort all the way. With little effort you can further decrease fuel usage with a little tinkering. Normally I bet people just add some escorts and let them follow along the entire route. What I do is attach a TF at Balboa. This TF then turns around at Hiva Oa or Tahiti. If needed the do a "minimal refuel" before leaving. Another escort TF takes over and escorts the convoy to Auckland. They don´t refuel at Auckland but when they get back to Hiva Oa or Tahiti. Always refuel as close to the fuel source as possible. Its just a few extra clicks but it will save you a tremendous amount of fuel.

I´m now swimming in fuel in SOPAC. 270k at Auckland with another 230k currently unloading. Another 230k is a couple of days out and 400k currently transiting towards Auckland at various distances. Another 300k fuel at Sydney and 100k on AOs. Hiva Oa has 80k, Tahiti 30k, Suva 40k and Noumea 25k. I don´t even use all my capacity. I have about 150 xAKs doing upgrades at Cristobal and another 100 or so doing nothing at CT.

Supply is holding steadily at around 2 million. I´m honestly not shipping that much right now. Only a couple of 100k convoys.

Make an effort to get things up and running early on and it will pay dividends later on. Pay attention to this part of the game. Its important. Especially in 42 when you will be chronically short on fuel in SOPAC.

[BillBrown]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister


Anyone still think I should worry about a WC invasion? [:)]

Yes. What happens if he takes Portland? I think all the ships that are scheduled to arrive here are destroyed.
What if he takes LA? All of the aircraft factories are destroyed.

I think you see what I am saying. He doesn't have to hold a base, he just has to take it one day
and a lot of production is down the drain.

[poodlebrain]

I think it is safe to say an invasion of the West Coast resulting in a decisive Japanese victory is not realistic. A direct amphibious assault at a major base will face either level 8 or 9 forts, substantial CD and well prepped defenders. Any will be reinforced well before the local garrisons can be defeated.

Acknowledging this, it doesn't mean the Japanese won't try just for the heck of it. This is a game, and your opponent may have enough invested in a WC invasion to say "Let's go for it" since similar circumstances will not likely present themselves in future games. He could decide to invade for the entertainment value.

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: BillBrown
Yes. What happens if he takes Portland? I think all the ships that are scheduled to arrive here are destroyed.
What if he takes LA? All of the aircraft factories are destroyed.

I think you see what I am saying. He doesn't have to hold a base, he just has to take it one day
and a lot of production is down the drain.

Yes, but he can´t teleport his troops straight to Portland...how many days out will he be detected? Lets use Portland as an example.

D-3 Fleet is detected. Rapid response troops (1 Armored ID, 2 IDs + 1 USMC ID, 2 Tank BTLs) move towards Portland. Troops in LA, SD, SF and Seattle go to strat mode. Fighters fly to Northern WC. Subs move for the area.
D-2. Rapid response troops arrives in Portland. Shifts to Combat Mode
D-1. Possible Allied conterstrikes from the air. Troops in the rest of US strat move towards Portland.
Landing. Japanese troops start unloading. Emergency reinforcements triggered. 5000ish AV rails towards Portland. Rapid response team are in combat mode.
D+1. AV at Portland 2200 behind level 6 forts in x2 terrain. Earliest possible Japanese attack. 5000 AV arrives in strat mode.
D+2 More allied troops arriving. Regiments are now in Combat mode. Emergency reinforcements rails towards Portland.
D+3 More allied troops arriving. Some divisions are now in Combat mode.
D+5 20 divisions are now in Portland.

This is just an example. Most likely I would get a lot more warning then just 3 days. I have subs stationed of the coast as well as SIGINT.

All I have to do is prevent a Japanese capture for a couple of days. I also think its highly unlikely the Japanese could attack on the first day after the landing.

LA is beyond Japanese capabilities to capture at this stage. UH (x3) terrain and level 8 forts make it utterly impossible.

No matter how much I twist and turn this I can´t see any possible way that the Japanese could pull this off. Especially not under the current circumstance when the Allies are prepared.

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: poodlebrain

I think it is safe to say an invasion of the West Coast resulting in a decisive Japanese victory is not realistic. A direct amphibious assault at a major base will face either level 8 or 9 forts, substantial CD and well prepped defenders. Any will be reinforced well before the local garrisons can be defeated.

Acknowledging this, it doesn't mean the Japanese won't try just for the heck of it. This is a game, and your opponent may have enough invested in a WC invasion to say "Let's go for it" since similar circumstances will not likely present themselves in future games. He could decide to invade for the entertainment value.

Just because I don´t fear an invasion doesn´t mean I don´t prepare for it. I do have lots of engineers (even unrestricted ones) building forts. I also have the troops slated for the counter attack into Alaska doing guard duty. [:)]

I have 1 Armored IDs + 25th and 37th + 3rd Marines sitting in strat mode in Sacramento. They will be reinforced with more as the 43rd ID and 6th + 13th Armored arrives in 20-30 days. As they arrive they will go to SF to recover disablements. This will free up troops currently guarding SF. [:)]

I should have around 3k AV ready in strat mode in 30-40 days. [:)]

[JocMeister]

[font="Verdana"]A rare success[/font]
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I think Trusty have now sunk more ships then all other subs combined.

Sub attack near Phuket at 48,70

Japanese Ships
xAK Kiyoshima Maru, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
PB Kiko Maru

Allied Ships
SS Trusty

[JeffroK]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

ORIGINAL: BillBrown
Yes. What happens if he takes Portland? I think all the ships that are scheduled to arrive here are destroyed.
What if he takes LA? All of the aircraft factories are destroyed.

I think you see what I am saying. He doesn't have to hold a base, he just has to take it one day
and a lot of production is down the drain.

Yes, but he can´t teleport his troops straight to Portland...how many days out will he be detected? Lets use Portland as an example.

D-3 Fleet is detected. Rapid response troops (1 Armored ID, 2 IDs + 1 USMC ID, 2 Tank BTLs) move towards Portland. Troops in LA, SD, SF and Seattle go to strat mode. Fighters fly to Northern WC. Subs move for the area.
D-2. Rapid response troops arrives in Portland. Shifts to Combat Mode
D-1. Possible Allied conterstrikes from the air. Troops in the rest of US strat move towards Portland.
Landing. Japanese troops start unloading. Emergency reinforcements triggered. 5000ish AV rails towards Portland. Rapid response team are in combat mode.
D+1. AV at Portland 2200 behind level 6 forts in x2 terrain. Earliest possible Japanese attack. 5000 AV arrives in strat mode.
D+2 More allied troops arriving. Regiments are now in Combat mode. Emergency reinforcements rails towards Portland.
D+3 More allied troops arriving. Some divisions are now in Combat mode.
D+5 20 divisions are now in Portland.

This is just an example. Most likely I would get a lot more warning then just 3 days. I have subs stationed of the coast as well as SIGINT.

All I have to do is prevent a Japanese capture for a couple of days. I also think its highly unlikely the Japanese could attack on the first day after the landing.

LA is beyond Japanese capabilities to capture at this stage. UH (x3) terrain and level 8 forts make it utterly impossible.

No matter how much I twist and turn this I can´t see any possible way that the Japanese could pull this off. Especially not under the current circumstance when the Allies are prepared.

But,

Multiple threats appear on D-3, which is the real target??
Have to hold reinforcements until sure. (This was the beauty of Operation Fortitude)

Landings in multiple places, do any possible landing points interdict the Nth - Sth movement of your reaction.

How far can japanese transports drop Para's, further cutting your LOC's

I reckon its a stupid plan for the timeline, maybe in very early 1942 as a continuation of the original landings. However, it would make for an interesting AAR.

Dont forget to keep your troops Resting/Training as much as is possible. Your50=60 exp units would be facing 80+ exp troops, and keep working on a plan to make such an attack a bad idea!

[tiemanjw]

I like how you are thinking in terms of time. I also think his chance of success would be low if he tried, but your timeline is a bit off.

You may detect his fleet at D-3, but how will you know where it is going? A Portland force could be going to Seattle or even northern cal. I don't think you can commit reserves that early. That said, with size 6-8 forts, waiting until landing won't make Mich difference in the end.

A few other things to consider. First, he could land something in the north (portland), then bring in the main force south (or vice versa).
As for sigint...he only needs to prep a few units for the landing site. He can have other units prepped for other landing sites he has no intention of using (or as secondary targets if he discovers the primary is too tough).
In the end, it probably won't matter, but it isn't quite as simple as you make it out.

[Lokasenna]

I think that person you are referring to who didn't "make his homework" was..... Alfred? [:'(]

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: JeffK
But,

Multiple threats appear on D-3, which is the real target??
Have to hold reinforcements until sure. (This was the beauty of Operation Fortitude)

Landings in multiple places, do any possible landing points interdict the Nth - Sth movement of your reaction.

How far can japanese transports drop Para's, further cutting your LOC's

I reckon its a stupid plan for the timeline, maybe in very early 1942 as a continuation of the original landings. However, it would make for an interesting AAR.

Dont forget to keep your troops Resting/Training as much as is possible. Your50=60 exp units would be facing 80+ exp troops, and keep working on a plan to make such an attack a bad idea!

That is obviously a bit of a problem. In that case I hope SIGINT could provide some assistance. He still have to ship the troops and prepp them!

For him to use paras he would have to take a base and then fly them from it. Should give me some warning to rail in para guards.

ORIGINAL: tiemanj

I like how you are thinking in terms of time. I also think his chance of success would be low if he tried, but your timeline is a bit off.

You may detect his fleet at D-3, but how will you know where it is going? A Portland force could be going to Seattle or even northern cal. I don't think you can commit reserves that early. That said, with size 6-8 forts, waiting until landing won't make Mich difference in the end.

A few other things to consider. First, he could land something in the north (portland), then bring in the main force south (or vice versa).
As for sigint...he only needs to prep a few units for the landing site. He can have other units prepped for other landing sites he has no intention of using (or as secondary targets if he discovers the primary is too tough).
In the end, it probably won't matter, but it isn't quite as simple as you make it out.

Yeah, obviously identifying the landing would be the most important aspect. Again I would hope SIGINT can help out. He can only prepp a few units if he intends on landing on pretty much unguarded place and then walk towards the real target. This would obviously buy me more time to react.

Not saying it would be easy but its not something I worry about.[:)]

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

I think that person you are referring to who didn't "make his homework" was..... Alfred? [:'(]

Not sure? He is usually on my green button so I don´t see what he writes. [:)]

[JeffroK]

For him to use paras he would have to take a base and then fly them from it. Should give me some warning to rail in para guards.

Coal Harbour?

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: JeffK

For him to use paras he would have to take a base and then fly them from it. Should give me some warning to rail in para guards.

Coal Harbour?

Heh, that is a good point! I have a vague memory of taking care of that when he landed at CH but I´ll make sure when I get the next turn! [:D]

[Xilana]

Nice to see your preparations. I remain a lurker on the sidelines as to playing this game (I don't have the time to commit), but have read enough AARs to say that we've seen over the years many extended perimeter gambits. I think the problem with these gambits is that if they don't play out, and the Allied player is good, it hastens the Japanese demise.

The Hawaii/West Coast gambit does lead to an interesting thought, and I surmise we will see it soon. Why not a December 41 invasion of the West Coast? As to your game, while I agree that your defensive strategy sounds good, I think your opponent will strike just to see how an invasion plays out.

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: venividivici10044a

Nice to see your preparations. I remain a lurker on the sidelines as to playing this game (I don't have the time to commit), but have read enough AARs to say that we've seen over the years many extended perimeter gambits. I think the problem with these gambits is that if they don't play out, and the Allied player is good, it hastens the Japanese demise.

The Hawaii/West Coast gambit does lead to an interesting thought, and I surmise we will see it soon. Why not a December 41 invasion of the West Coast? As to your game, while I agree that your defensive strategy sounds good, I think your opponent will strike just to see how an invasion plays out.

The facts that an invasion never came after Coal Harbor is one of the reasons I don´t think a WC invasion will happen. The chances of success would have been a lot better if the Japanese had blitzed straight for say Portland in early 42. Less troops, no forts, pretty much no Allied air force.

[Xilana]

Time will tell! Agree, I would have invaded in early 42.

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: venividivici10044a

Time will tell! Agree, I would have invaded in early 42.

Me too. [:)]

[ny59giants]

For Japan only players, they don't realize that until mid-May the Allies are hurting badly for construction engineers worse that Japan is. By the end of 42 we are swimming in them. [:D] Mr SeaBee is everywhere and those large SeaBee Rgt units are just a nice luxury. Building forts to 6 or large in USA is not a problem by now for Jocke.

[poodlebrain]

In hindsight the Japanese should have made Portland their target instead of Pearl Harbor. I doubt you could have held Portland against the forces used for the capture of Hawaii.

I expect we will see a Japanese player give it a try in a game in the not too distant future. It is the ultimate in Kamikaze missions. Sacrifice several thousand VP for elimination of all shipping built at Portland.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

ORIGINAL: JeffK

For him to use paras he would have to take a base and then fly them from it. Should give me some warning to rail in para guards.

Coal Harbour?

Heh, that is a good point! I have a vague memory of taking care of that when he landed at CH but I´ll make sure when I get the next turn! [:D]

Everyone has looked at CH as a base for launching air or para attacks on the big bases to the southeast, but I think it was also supposed to be a way to isolate Prince Rupert and defend it against reinforcement from the sea before he took it. When you rushed troops there before the Coal Harbour attack his plan to take an excellent port with shipyard was scuttled. His next nearest shipyard was at PH or Hakodate!