THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J)

[Rio Bravo]

ORIGINAL: Bif1961

Are the BBs in the Carrier TFs the ones with the best AA?

Bif-

Welcome to The War College.

The best AA Battleship that the Allies presently have is the North Carolina (1,242 AA).

The three Battleships in the three Carrier Groups have 793 AA.

The balance of the Allied Battleships, all older Battleships have far less AA than do the Battleships with the Carrier Groups (AA is either a little under 500 or a little over 500).

Best Regards,

-Terry

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Rio Bravo

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Be aware that by embedding the slow BBs in your carrier TFs you slow their movement and restrict their range for a high speed run to either react or escape.

If push comes to shove you may have to remove them if a fight gets dicey.

Hans-

Yes, I was and am aware that that i may need to dash to save the Carriers or chase something worth sinking and that the BBs might be left behind.

Wish us luck.

Best Regards,

-Terry

Hans Bolter's warning has nothing to do with leaving the BBs behind. Your TFs move at the pace of the slowest ship both in transit and in combat. Having the slow boats in there also makes the CVs more vulnerable to sub strikes especially.

Basically look at how these TFs were composed in the war and use that as a guide for what you do in game, being aware of timing as well. In early war the US used CA/CLAA/DD with TFs of 10-12 ships including only one CV. Later they had the ability to add in fast BBs and use more CVs together due to better air control and organizational management.

ORIGINAL: Rio Bravo

ORIGINAL: Bif1961

Are the BBs in the Carrier TFs the ones with the best AA?

Bif-

Welcome to The War College.

The best AA Battleship that the Allies presently have is the North Carolina (1,242 AA).

The three Battleships in the three Carrier Groups have 793 AA.

The balance of the Allied Battleships, all older Battleships have far less AA than do the Battleships with the Carrier Groups (AA is either a little under 500 or a little over 500).

Best Regards,

-Terry

You may be aware of the upgrade paths, but if not, have a look. That'll change! Those oldies will be invaluable AA platforms and CD gun sponges for your amphib ops in 43-45.

[HansBolter]

Give us an estimate of how many turns of transit before we get to the action.

The anticipation is killing me.

[Rio Bravo]

[center]Combat Report[/center]
[center]for[/center]
[center]July 27, 1942[/center]

Today, El Lobo moved 40 miles closer toward Chungking. Nothing else of significance to report.

The Japanese Drive the Chinese Back North of Kweiyang:

Ground combat at 75,48 (near Kweiyang)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 99043 troops, 1003 guns, 155 vehicles, Assault Value = 3169

Defending force 35107 troops, 95 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 938

Japanese adjusted assault: 1586

Allied adjusted defense: 311

Japanese assault odds: 5 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
3351 casualties reported
Squads: 16 destroyed, 519 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 52 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 41 disabled
Vehicles lost 1 (1 destroyed, 0 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
12083 casualties reported
Squads: 574 destroyed, 143 disabled
Non Combat: 467 destroyed, 147 disabled
Engineers: 7 destroyed, 7 disabled
Guns lost 8 (8 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units retreated 13

Defeated Allied Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
102nd Infantry Regiment
22nd Division
55th Infantry Brigade
39th Division
104th Division
51st Infantry Brigade
6th Division
3rd Division
40th Division
52nd Infantry Brigade
19th Ind.Mixed Brigade
138th Infantry Regiment
2nd JAAF AF Coy
1st JAAF AF Coy
21st Mortar Battalion
2nd RF Gun Battalion
RGC Army
5th RF Gun Battalion
8th Mountain Gun Regiment
23rd Army
28th Mountain Gun Regiment
67th JAAF AF Coy

Defending units:
48th Chinese Corps
52nd Chinese Corps
65th Chinese Corps
30th Chinese Corps
63rd Chinese Corps
68th Chinese Corps
5th Chinese Cavalry Corps
1st Group Army
9th Group Army
16th Group Army
29th Group Army
7th Chinese Base Force
13th Chinese Base Force
20th Chinese Base Force

Best Regards,

-Terry

[Rio Bravo]

Obvert-

Welcome to The War College-

Thank you for your input.

I am aware that a TF moves only as fast as the slowest ship in the TF.

For this mission, a mission to lie a 160 miles off wake to interdict a possible Japanese invasion, I don't see a real need for speed unless a superior Japanese Carrier Task Force arrives.

If a superior Japanese Task Force arrives at Wake, the Allied Carriers need to run as fast as possible. Perhaps Hans' warning had nothing to do with leaving the BBs behind. Or, perhaps Hans' warning was intended to be inclusive of having to leave the BBs behind should the Allies need to dash. I really don't know.

If the Japanese arrive with an equal or inferior Carrier Task Force, the Allied Carriers will attempt to engage in battle at Wake, but only within the close vicinity of Wake. In this event should the Japanese Carriers run, the Allies will not give chase for fear of running into more Japanese Carriers.

If the Japanese arrive without Carriers, again the Allies will attempt to engage in battle at Wake, but only within the close vicinity of Wake.

I am concerned about some of your advice, as follows: 1.) The Allies have too many ships in each Carrier Task Force (14 versus your recommended 10 to 12); 2.) The Allies have two Carriers in each Task Force; and 3.) The Carrier Task Forces could be more vulnerable to Japanese submarine attacks. Do you think those risks are significant enough to make it prudent to change the composition of the three Carrier Task Forces?

Lastly, yes I agree and I am very happy that El Lobo did not attack Pearl Harbor and that the Allies have all those old, lumbering Battleships. I wasn't aware that eventually they will receive some upgrade. I am sure they will come in handy down the road.

I do value your advice Obvert as I have heard only good things from others about you, and about your knowledge and skills as applied to WITP.

Best Regards,

-Terry

[Rio Bravo]

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Give us an estimate of how many turns of transit before we get to the action.

The anticipation is killing me.

Hans-

The Marcus Island Amphibious Assault Task Forces are 760 miles from Marcus. Presently, they have halted to remain on station until the slow-moving Long Island CVE Task Force can catch up and be in position to support the amphibious landing. I think the actual invasion of Marcus Island will occur on either August 1st or 2nd.

As to the Wake Island Interdiction, the replenishment Task Force and the DD Scout Task Force are presently 240 miles due South of Wake. The three Carrier Task Forces and two Surface Combat Task Forces are two days from reaching the Replenishment Task Force. After filling the tanks, All combat Task Forces will continue toward Wake. Accordingly, hopefully, these Task Forces will be in position approximately 160 miles off Wake on either August 1st or 2nd.

I am trying to coordinate the timing to have both the Marcus and Wake missions to be on target on the same date.

Best Regards,

-Terry

[Rio Bravo]

Hans-

The Wake Port is at Level 2, the Air Capacity is at Level 3, and the Fort is at Level 4 (38%).

Best Regards,

-Terry

[JocMeister]

I don´t want to sound pessimistic but I think you may have brought too little and you made a terrible mistake by using xAKs. Marcus is an atoll which will trigger an automatic shock attack. Using xAKs means you will have unloaded only a fraction of your troops when the shock attack occurs. This means your troops will likely be wrecked unless Marcus is undefended. Do you have SIGINT confirmation that Marcus is indeed undefended?

[Rio Bravo]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

I don´t want to sound pessimistic but I think you may have brought too little and you made a terrible mistake by using xAKs. Marcus is an atoll which will trigger an automatic shock attack. Using xAKs means you will have unloaded only a fraction of your troops when the shock attack occurs. This means your troops will likely be wrecked unless Marcus is undefended. Do you have SIGINT confirmation that Marcus is indeed undefended?

Joc-

No, I haven't received a SIGNET report to that effect.

I have the PG Sacramento sitting in Marcus without sighting any enemy. I plan to send one Destroyer to Bombard to see if any enemy are present. And, I will have a float plan off of a CA search the island. If I still don't detect the presence of Japanese, I will go ahead with the amphibious assault.

I still won't feel comfortable.

*laughing*

Best Regards,

-Terry

[JocMeister]

Sounds like a very reasonable plan! Good luck! [:)]

[Rio Bravo]

[center]Combat Report[/center]
[center]for[/center]
[center]July 28, 1942[/center]

PG Sacramento finally found the enemy near Marcus Island.

PG Sacramento Sunk Near Marcus Island:

Day Time Surface Combat, near Marcus Island at 122,84, Range 16,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
BB Mutsu
CA Aoba
DD Uzuki
DD Yuzuki
DD Shiokaze
DD Karii

Allied Ships
PG Sacramento, Shell hits 6, and is sunk

Maximum visibility in Overcast Conditions: 20,000 yards
Range closes to 16,000 yards...
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 16,000 yards
CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 16,000 yards
Kogure, Gunji* crosses the 'T'
CA Aoba engages PG Sacramento at 16,000 yards
DD Shiokaze engages PG Sacramento at 16,000 yards
DD Yuzuki engages PG Sacramento at 16,000 yards
DD Uzuki engages PG Sacramento at 16,000 yards
Bukeley, J.D. orders Allied TF to disengage
Range closes to 9,000 yards
PG Sacramento sunk by BB Mutsu at 9,000 yards
Combat ends with last Allied ship sunk...

Chinese Fight Off Japanese Tank Brigade Near Kuming!

Ground combat at 70,45 (near Kunming)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 1350 troops, 12 guns, 192 vehicles, Assault Value = 103

Defending force 9509 troops, 66 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 300

Japanese adjusted assault: 47

Allied adjusted defense: 256

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 5

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker: leaders(+), leaders(-)

Japanese ground losses:
Vehicles lost 5 (1 destroyed, 4 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
284 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 23 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 15 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled

Assaulting units:
7th Ind.Tank Brigade

Defending units:
24th Chinese Corps
3rd Group Army
Jingcha War Area
7th Group Army
3rd Chinese Base Force

95th Chinese Corps Hangs Tough Near Kienko!

Ground combat at 80,41 (near Kienko)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 2010 troops, 0 guns, 300 vehicles, Assault Value = 169

Defending force 4415 troops, 49 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 118

Japanese adjusted assault: 91

Allied adjusted defense: 79

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Allied ground losses:
109 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 23 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Assaulting units:
3rd Tank Regiment
5th Tank Regiment
13th Tank Regiment

Defending units:
95th Chinese Corps

Best Regards,

-Terry

[pontiouspilot]

So he had spotted the PG?, or alternatively the Mutsu group is on their way to Wake and blundered across it. I wonder which?? If this was his reaction to a spotting, is that also the reason KB left IO? I would have Marcus landers hold back until you know more. Presumably the Cats at Wake should spot this bunch if headed on to Wake.

I am guessing that you hadn't planned on moving the CVs as far north as might be required to support something at Marcus?

Sorry only questions!!

[Rio Bravo]

[center]Combat Report[/center]
[center]for[/center]
[center]July 29, 1942[/center]

The Imperial Japanese Navy strikes again! This time, three empty Allied xAK transports sink at Diego Garcia. A bit of a concern considering several troop and aircraft transports are in route to India via Diego Garcia.

No other action of significance today.

I Don't Like Red Sun Ships:

Night Time Surface Combat, near Diego Garcia at 11,62, Range 8,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CA Tone
CA Chikuma
DD Tanikaze
DD Michishio
DD Fubuki
DD Satsuki

Allied Ships
xAK Howell Lykes, Shell hits 21, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
xAK General Fleisher, Shell hits 6, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
xAK T. A. Johnson, Shell hits 8, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk

Improved night sighting under 96% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Overcast Conditions and 96% moonlight: 8,000 yards
Range closes to 11,000 yards...
Range closes to 10,000 yards...
Range closes to 9,000 yards...
Range closes to 8,000 yards...
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 8,000 yards
CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 8,000 yards
CA Tone engages xAK T. A. Johnson at 8,000 yards
DD Satsuki engages xAK General Fleisher at 8,000 yards
DD Fubuki engages xAK T. A. Johnson at 8,000 yards
DD Michishio engages xAK General Fleisher at 8,000 yards
DD Tanikaze engages xAK T. A. Johnson at 8,000 yards
Range increases to 9,000 yards
CA Tone engages xAK T. A. Johnson at 9,000 yards
CA Tone engages xAK General Fleisher at 9,000 yards
DD Fubuki engages xAK General Fleisher at 9,000 yards
Range closes to 7,000 yards
CA Tone engages xAK T. A. Johnson at 7,000 yards
DD Fubuki engages xAK Howell Lykes at 7,000 yards
DD Michishio engages xAK Howell Lykes at 7,000 yards
xAK T. A. Johnson sunk by DD Tanikaze at 7,000 yards
Range closes to 4,000 yards
CA Chikuma engages xAK General Fleisher at 4,000 yards
DD Tanikaze engages xAK Howell Lykes at 4,000 yards
DD Fubuki engages xAK Howell Lykes at 4,000 yards
Range closes to 3,000 yards
CA Tone engages xAK Howell Lykes at 3,000 yards
DD Fubuki engages xAK Howell Lykes at 3,000 yards
Range increases to 4,000 yards
xAK General Fleisher sunk by DD Fubuki at 4,000 yards
CA Tone engages xAK Howell Lykes at 4,000 yards
DD Fubuki engages xAK Howell Lykes at 4,000 yards
DD Michishio engages xAK Howell Lykes at 4,000 yards
Range closes to 3,000 yards
xAK Howell Lykes sunk by CA Chikuma at 3,000 yards
xAK Howell Lykes sunk by CA Chikuma at 3,000 yards
Combat ends with last Allied ship sunk...

Best Regards,

-Terry

[Rio Bravo]

ORIGINAL: pontiouspilot

So he had spotted the PG?, or alternatively the Mutsu group is on their way to Wake and blundered across it. I wonder which?? If this was his reaction to a spotting, is that also the reason KB left IO? I would have Marcus landers hold back until you know more. Presumably the Cats at Wake should spot this bunch if headed on to Wake.

I am guessing that you hadn't planned on moving the CVs as far north as might be required to support something at Marcus?

Sorry only questions!!

pontiouspilot-

Like you, I am unsure of the Matsu Group's intentions.

I had ordered the Sacramento to leave Marcus and snoop around about 160 miles Northeast of Marcus..and...well...poof went the Sacramento.

I do have the CVE Long Island Task force and a lone Destroyer very close to Marcus Island and heading that way. If the Matsu comes closer, without carrier support, the Allies might get lucky and nick a Japanese War ship or two.

And correct, the three big American Task Forces are headed to Wake Island.

It might be an interesting day tomorrow.

Best Regards,

-Terry

[Rio Bravo]

[center]Combat Report[/center]
[center]for[/center]
[center]July 30, 1942[/center]

Japanese Carriers are not sighted anywhere.

95th Chinese Corps Repel 3 Japanese Tank Regiments Near Kienko Again!

Ground combat at 80,41 (near Kienko)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 2010 troops, 0 guns, 300 vehicles, Assault Value = 169

Defending force 4220 troops, 47 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 97

Japanese adjusted assault: 96

Allied adjusted defense: 61

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Allied ground losses:
153 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 37 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Assaulting units:
3rd Tank Regiment
5th Tank Regiment
13th Tank Regiment

Defending units:
95th Chinese Corps

The, the, that's all folks!

Best Regards,

-Terry

[Rio Bravo]

[center]China[/center]
[center]as of July 30, 1942[/center]

The Chinese face overwhelming Japanese ground and air forces. They are tired, low on ammunition, low on supply, and hungry. Yet, they fight on with the only thing they have an ample amount of: Courage!

El Lobo has switched tactics once again. The Japanese now attack from the West too. And, on the Eastern and Southern Fronts, his troops are fanning out to strike at several Chinese positions. Instead of charging straight forward with brute force, his troops are now also hitting the Chinese flanks. Getting behind the advancing Red Sun to cut his supply lines will be most difficult now, if not impossible.

El Lobo's consistent, persistent slaughter of the Chinese has taken its toll. I am not sure how much longer the Chinese can survive; most likely through August, not too likely through September.

Time will tell.

Fight brave Chinese. Fight!

Best Regards,

-Terry

[Rio Bravo]

[center]Combat Report[/center]
[center]for[/center]
[center]July 31, 1942[/center]

Japanese submarine sinks an Allied transport with an FA Battalion aboard. Nothing else of significance to report.

95th Chinese Corps Continues to Hold Their Ground Near Kienko Against Three Japanese Tank Regiments!

Ground combat at 80,41 (near Kienko)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 2010 troops, 0 guns, 300 vehicles, Assault Value = 169

Defending force 4220 troops, 47 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 97

Japanese adjusted assault: 96

Allied adjusted defense: 61

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Allied ground losses:
153 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 37 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Assaulting units:
3rd Tank Regiment
5th Tank Regiment
13th Tank Regiment

Defending units:
95th Chinese Corps

Best Regards,

-Terry

[Rio Bravo]

[center]Month End Report[/center]
[center]By the Numbers[/center]
[center]as of July 31, 1942[/center]

As many of you are aware, El Lobo and I only have one House rule which is to play the game without consideration to Victory Points. However, I keep an eye on Victory Points as a quick gauge to see how I am doing against the Red Sun Beast. Accordingly, an illustration of "By the Numbers" is depicted below.

July was an interesting month for the following reasons:

1.) El Lobo invaded Ceylon and has landed over two divisions.

2.) The Allies solidified their position at Akyab and moved the Americal Division along with supporting units to the Imphal-Ledo Line. Parts of the Americal Force is about 80 miles from Kalemyo.

4.) There are now six U. S. Army Infantry Divisions in India.

Best Regards,

-Terry

[Rio Bravo]

[center]Combat Report[/center]
[center]for[/center]
[center]August 1, 1942[/center]

Destroyer John D. Edwards bombarded Marcus Island today. The enemy was not sighted; no troops, no ships, nor aircraft.

The Allies will amphibious assault Marcus Island tomorrow, August 2, 1942.

The Allied Carrier Task Forces and Surface Combat Task Forces will be in position off the coast of Wake Island tomorrow, August 2, 1942.

Japanese Eliminate 52nd Chinese Corps Near Kweiyang:

Ground combat at 75,48 (near Kweiyang)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 96704 troops, 1048 guns, 173 vehicles, Assault Value = 2905

Defending force 2937 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 11

Japanese adjusted assault: 2650

Allied adjusted defense: 1

Japanese assault odds: 2650 to 1Seriously?

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), disruption(-), experience(-)
supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
38 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Allied ground losses:
3612 casualties reported
Squads: 59 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 496 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Units destroyed 1

Assaulting units:
52nd Infantry Brigade
3rd Division
51st Infantry Brigade
39th Division
55th Infantry Brigade
102nd Infantry Regiment
40th Division
6th Division
19th Ind.Mixed Brigade
22nd Division
104th Division
138th Infantry Regiment
2nd RF Gun Battalion
1st JAAF AF Coy
28th Mountain Gun Regiment
23rd Army
2nd Mobile Field Artillery Regiment
8th Mountain Gun Regiment
5th RF Gun Battalion
RGC Army
21st Mortar Battalion
2nd JAAF AF Coy
67th JAAF AF Coy

Defending units:
52nd Chinese Corps

95th Chinese Corps "Just Says No" to Three Japanese Tank Regiments Near Kienko!

Ground combat at 80,41 (near Kienko)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 2002 troops, 0 guns, 300 vehicles, Assault Value = 169

Defending force 4017 troops, 45 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 75

Japanese adjusted assault: 111

Allied adjusted defense: 64

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Allied ground losses:
314 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 39 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Assaulting units:
3rd Tank Regiment
5th Tank Regiment
13th Tank Regiment

Defending units:
95th Chinese Corps

DD John D. Edwards Bombards Marcus Island!

Naval bombardment of Marcus Island at 123,85

Allied Ships
DD John D. Edwards

Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 1

DD John D. Edwards firing at Marcus Island

Another Sally Bites the Dust Near Chungking!

Morning Air attack on 14th Chinese Corps, at 77,47, near Chungking

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 18 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-21-IIa Sally x 8

Allied aircraft
P-66 Vanguard x 2

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21-IIa Sally: 1 destroyed

No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x Ki-21-IIa Sally bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
4 x Ki-21-IIa Sally bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
5th FG/17th FS CAF with P-66 Vanguard (2 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(2 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 10000.
Raid is overhead

Best Regards,

-Terry

[pontiouspilot]

The wait is over...no sign of that Mutsu TF?