Lambs to the slaughter (Lowpe (J) vs Jocke; BillBrown (A)) Finished

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

ORIGINAL: obvert

The Sam is great for a 20k mid-level CAP late. At some points when I had numerous Jack J2M5 & Frank Ki-84r at 31k and Sams at 20k they can turn to defend against the best and wait for high CAP to dive, plus they're tough against bombers and durable enough to last through a large combat.

They actually aren't any more durable than the other 3rd-gen IJN fighters (Jack/George) - durability 30, armor 1. If we're talking about LBA groups here, then I'd rather use one of those two models.

Frank/Jack are high CAP. Sam/George/Ki-100 are mid level. (Although the N1K5 is fast enough to be high too). Any A6M around, or Oscars, are low CAP.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

ORIGINAL: obvert

The Sam is great for a 20k mid-level CAP late. At some points when I had numerous Jack J2M5 & Frank Ki-84r at 31k and Sams at 20k they can turn to defend against the best and wait for high CAP to dive, plus they're tough against bombers and durable enough to last through a large combat.

They actually aren't any more durable than the other 3rd-gen IJN fighters (Jack/George) - durability 30, armor 1. If we're talking about LBA groups here, then I'd rather use one of those two models.

Frank/Jack are high CAP. Sam/George/Ki-100 are mid level. (Although the N1K5 is fast enough to be high too). Any A6M around, or Oscars, are low CAP.

All my fighters are pretty much low CAP. Very rarely do I fly above 15K. I have been known to fly Oscars at 3000 feet. This game with Alt restrictions is the exception, and I fly the Tojo at 20K (max altitude)but everything else much lower.

[obvert]

They're increasing ALT restrictions though, right? This suggestion is late war when (I assume) CAP will have a higher limit.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: obvert

They're increasing ALT restrictions though, right? This suggestion is late war when (I assume) CAP will have a higher limit.

Yes, but I probably won't climb with them...I want the air to air combat to be very low.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: obvert

They're increasing ALT restrictions though, right? This suggestion is late war when (I assume) CAP will have a higher limit.

Yes, but I probably won't climb with them...I want the air to air combat to be very low.

Don't we all?!? [;)]

I found that it was best to use layered CAP late, but I played with nearly every combination possible during my campaign games. Recently in tests I found Japanese defenders did well up high but were often skewered by divers without any chance to fight back if set all low.

It al depends on where you are and the other factors of course, but I think the ability of IJ fighters to climb makes them useful up high even against the best. This then leaves some lower CAP to fight bombers.

Let me know if you've discovered otherwise in my hiatus, as I'd like to understand this all better. Maybe there is a CR in your game you can point to where low CAP worked?

[Lowpe]

Obvert, I got the Alfred stamp of approval[:D] for defensive CAP:

2. I am never in favour of HRs. In almost all instances a HR benefits one side and is a very lazy way for the disadvantaged to limit their disadvantage. In almost all instances, there is a legitimate tactic which obviates the necessity of a HR. A classic example is the constant whining of players that a HR is necessary to combat high altitude sweeps. You have consistently implemented the tactics which some of us have been saying for years are the correct response, and your results have been outstanding. Alfred

Of course, every game is different but I have done very well versus Jocke's Lightning sweeps so far this game. Knock on wood.[:D]

[Lowpe]

Jocke puts two torpedoes into a 17 point xAP, in return I depth charge and sink (unlikely) a Gato class sub in the straits of Malacca or nearbye. I might still get the Gato, as it has to return thru many coastal water hexes teeming with decent sub chasers and aerial search.

So far my aerial ASW has been very poor, as I haven't allocated that many squadrons to it.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: Lowpe



PDU off here, gotta take what is available.

Which is what makes Sam even more important ... For PDU OFF it is the most important RnD target for the IJN ... IMO.

Hmm., I always thought the Frank A is the most important plane. Plentiful squadrons upgrade to it, stand up to Jugs, Army fighter, and early arrival date.


But now at looking at Sam here in a pdu off environment...there are more squadrons that upgrade to Sam (and stop there). If you want to play with the KB in 44 the Sam is a must have.

Unfortunately quite a few A6M2 upgrade to the Sen Baku and then along the Zero line.

I feel a lot better about bolstering my Sam research the other day, the engine research is advancing 1 month each month and that seems sufficient to me. If I can get the Sam mid 44 as seems likely with the engine bonus, then I will be in pretty good shape I think. First quarter 44 seems really tough to get.

The Tojo IIc starts research in 2 days; and once the IIc is advanced far enough those three factories will go over to the Sam too -- perhaps that will help get me to the 1st qtr 44.

[Lowpe]

In 9 days I get a slug of Garrison infantry. Very important units...The TOE for them is junk, but they are air mobile, and will allow me meet garrison requirements of several bases freeing up better TOE units.

I feel a chronic shortage of engineers in this game (mod) and look forward to getting more of them, too.

[Lowpe]

A typical garrison unit.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Obvert, I got the Alfred stamp of approval[:D] for defensive CAP:

2. I am never in favour of HRs. In almost all instances a HR benefits one side and is a very lazy way for the disadvantaged to limit their disadvantage. In almost all instances, there is a legitimate tactic which obviates the necessity of a HR. A classic example is the constant whining of players that a HR is necessary to combat high altitude sweeps. You have consistently implemented the tactics which some of us have been saying for years are the correct response, and your results have been outstanding. Alfred

Of course, every game is different but I have done very well versus Jocke's Lightning sweeps so far this game. Knock on wood.[:D]

Ha!! I can probably find where he's mentioned the same to me. What I'll write now is in the context of complete respect for Alfred's knowledge of the game design and deep knowledge of tactical application. He doesn't, however, play people. It's not a knock, just a difference. Against an opponent like Jocke I'll be curious to see if your low level CAP can do well in the later game. The P-47 is a whole different beast. [:)]

Even developers of the game use HRs to make it more playable, representational of a semblance of realistic conditions, and because it helps the game function better while playing against an opponent.

We innovate. The AI does not. As you know things like 25 PT boat TFs or multiple 82 plane air groups kind of ruins the experience. Late war 42k power sweeps have the same feeling, and a bunch of CAP flying at 10-15k doesn't usually cut it against 120 P-47N! [:D]

[Lowpe]

I have done it against the first two models of the p47...

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I have done it against the first two models of the p47...

[&o][&o][&o]

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I have done it against the first two models of the p47...

I'm not trying to say you can't. No need to get defensive! [;)]

I just would like to know how you can use only low CAP against massed high altitude sweeps and not get smashed. Point me in the right direction. I'd love to learn.

[njp72]

Howdy, this is my experience as well.

Layered CAP for bombers and fighter sweeps with massive numbers to offset quality of the airframes. So far it has worked reasonably well against the P47s.

Nevertheless, always happy to be educated.

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: obvert

They're increasing ALT restrictions though, right? This suggestion is late war when (I assume) CAP will have a higher limit.

Yes, but I probably won't climb with them...I want the air to air combat to be very low.

Don't we all?!? [;)]

I found that it was best to use layered CAP late, but I played with nearly every combination possible during my campaign games. Recently in tests I found Japanese defenders did well up high but were often skewered by divers without any chance to fight back if set all low.

It al depends on where you are and the other factors of course, but I think the ability of IJ fighters to climb makes them useful up high even against the best. This then leaves some lower CAP to fight bombers.

Let me know if you've discovered otherwise in my hiatus, as I'd like to understand this all better. Maybe there is a CR in your game you can point to where low CAP worked?

[Lowpe]

NJP is correct in that you need numbers. As a very rough rule of thumb, it isn't worth defending if you can't really punish that first wave of Jugs sweepers, and to do that you need near 200 planes at the kind of settings I use.

If you try to fight them with equal planes you will never do well & create hideously good Allied pilots.

To fight with the low CAP idea I read theElf, Lobaron, Alfred and PaxMondo a lot! I experimented a lot. In this game I have given Jocke two very bloody noses when he has tried to use Lightning sweeps...I feel very confident that in this game I will be able to standup to Allied fighters thru 1944.

[Lowpe]

Very close to breaking into the central Chinese plains.

1st Tank Division is formed. It will be awhile before the 2nd Tank Division is formed, as most of the pieces are still in Manchuria/Korea. It will be one of the first buys once the West Coast invasion force is set.

[Lowpe]

The Allies have an advantage in troops here, but not by much. I bombed the Aussies to the east of Dacca,which was actually an Indian Division yesterday and took today off.

Allies responded by flying fighters forward. Opportunity?

[Lowpe]

I lost an empty tanker, 8k size, here yesterday to a Dutch Sub. I moved the Lilly squadron from here to bolster ASW search in the Straits of Malacca.

Pete's don't have the range.

PDU off poses a challenge in countering Allied subs. Plus,I haven't put enough attention on it, too.

Still have bases I am cleaning up. Very tedious.

[Lowpe]

I plopped the 5th Guards Division on Port Blair a month or so ago, and picked them up and shipped them off to Kodiak the other day.

I was hoping Jocke might get some sigint, but the deception is blown today with high DL at Port Blair. Their initial destination is Singers...so perhaps Jocke will get that.

I am sending troops to garrison these islands now...and Port Blair is a lvl 5 runway with Betties, Nells, Fighters and Vals and an air force Hq with plentiful supply.