New Grand Prix Season Is Almost Upon Us!!!

[Poopyhead]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Not impressed with the 'matt' Red Bull livery [&:]

Perhaps this is another manifestation of the declining interset in F1 that Red Bull had last year. The new look may have appealed to a test group of snowboarding millenials.

[Jagdtiger14]

Not a big surprise...and they are introducing the car tomorrow. Cant wait to see what Haas has come up with!

http://www.autoblog.com/2016/02/21/merc ... cial-pics/

[Jagdtiger14]

http://motorsports.nbcsports.com/2016/0 ... -the-vf16/

A) Will they finish races?
B) Assuming A, which is a big assumption...can they finish second from last or better?
C) Points are out of the question this year. Unless they get lucky in a monsoon downpour.

[Jagdtiger14]

Looks like Ferrari (Vettel) has something this year. Two seconds faster than last year's pole at Barcelona. Mercedes might have an unpleasant surprise.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mo ... /80792314/

[Poopyhead]

This "halo" feature may be standard in 2017.

http://www.formula1.com/content/fom-web ... spain.html

It's not supposed to interfere with driver visibility. It doesn't seem to be a windshield, so I don't see how this would have helped Bianchi or even Massa'a head injury. I suppose that it does create more surface area for advertising.

[CarnageINC]

ORIGINAL: Poopyhead

This "halo" feature may be standard in 2017.

http://www.formula1.com/content/fom-web ... spain.html

It's not supposed to interfere with driver visibility. It doesn't seem to be a windshield, so I don't see how this would have helped Bianchi or even Massa'a head injury. I suppose that it does create more surface area for advertising.

With Massa you may have a point, but I'm more than sure it would of deflected it due to the angle it came in at. With Bianchi...well you obviously don't know what happen to him because this would of saved his life along with Senna's too if it was implemented back in the day. It also would helped Maria de Villota. She lost an eye in her accident, even though she was said to have died of a heart attack, its been said that a blood clot from the accident was a contributing factor for her.

[Hotschi]

At Senna's crash, the steering column of his own car penetrated his helmet (and head) - no safety device guarding from dangerous objects outside the car would have been of any help. Bianchi's car slid beneath a heavy crane or forklift, impacting in heads' height - would that halo thing be stable enough not to brake in such an instance? After all, it's a device to deflect objects, it' not a crash barrier. Not to mention that it's a useless discussion whether new stuff for the future would have helped in the past...

Whether this Halo System looks good or not is secondary - everything which improves the safety of drivers is a good thing - and advertising space generates money! [:D]

Btw, Raikkonen reportedly said the visibility is ok.

[CarnageINC]

ORIGINAL: Hotschi

At Senna's crash, the steering column of his own car penetrated his helmet (and head) - no safety device guarding from dangerous objects outside the car would have been of any help. Bianchi's car slid beneath a heavy crane or forklift, impacting in heads' height - would that halo thing be stable enough not to brake in such an instance? After all, it's a device to deflect objects, it' not a crash barrier. Not to mention that it's a useless discussion whether new stuff for the future would have helped in the past...

Whether this Halo System looks good or not is secondary - everything which improves the safety of drivers is a good thing - and advertising space generates money! [:D]

Btw, Raikkonen reportedly said the visibility is ok.

I see you are just as ignorant as Poopyhead. the steering column had nothing to do with his death, the tire came back into the cockpit. Hell, you could of googled this if you didn't know. Here is a direct quote of what happened.

"The right-front wheel and suspension are believed to have been sent back into the cockpit, striking Senna on the right side of his helmet, forcing his head back against the headrest. In addition, a piece of the upright assembly, most likely a tie rod, penetrated the helmet visor, which was a new, thinner version, above his right eye. Senna sustained fatal skull fractures, brain injuries and a ruptured temporal artery."

[Poopyhead]

As you can reread for yourself, I didn't say anything about Senna's accident. Bianchi's car slid under a crane. The halo is supposed to deflect small objects, smaller than a crane.

[Hotschi]

ORIGINAL: CarnageINC


I see you are just as ignorant as Poopyhead. the steering column had nothing to do with his death, the tire came back into the cockpit. Hell, you could of googled this if you didn't know. Here is a direct quote of what happened.

"The right-front wheel and suspension are believed to have been sent back into the cockpit, striking Senna on the right side of his helmet, forcing his head back against the headrest. In addition, a piece of the upright assembly, most likely a tie rod, penetrated the helmet visor, which was a new, thinner version, above his right eye. Senna sustained fatal skull fractures, brain injuries and a ruptured temporal artery."

Correct, it wasn't the steering column which penetrated Senna's head - such memory failures on my part can happen.

On the other hand, you are just as ignorant. To write that "the steering column had nothing to do with his death" completely ignores the cause of Senna's accident. You are speculating when you write the Halo "would of" saved his life. Hell, you "could of" googled pictures of the car designs back then if you don't know how they looked like. To refresh your memory, the cockpits were different - the drivers were much more exposed than they are now. As a sidenote, there was no HANS-system in use back then either.

You are again speculating when you write the Halo "would of" saved Bianchi's life. Apparently you haven't seen his crash - you "could of" googled a video of it.

[warspite1]

Predictions for the 2016 F1 season:

World Champion: Nico Rosberg
Runner-up: Sebastian Vettel

Mercedes to have reliability problems this season, the bulk of which happen to Lewis. Ferrari is fast but inconsistent, allowing Rosberg to take the title at the death.

Most Poles Trophy: Sebastian Vettel

Contructors Champions: Mercedes just edging out Ferrari

Biggest disappointment of the season: Jolyon Palmer (who gets axed by June)

The, Will McLaren make significant progress and be regularly challenging for points (and sometimes podiums) award: No.....

[Jagdtiger14]

Predictions for the 2016 F1 season:

World Champion: Hamilton (jinxing him)
Runner-up: Sebastian Vettel

Ferrari catches up significantly to Mercedes which will make it a neck and neck battle all season long. Not much Mercedes can do to improve their car this year.

Most Poles Trophy: Hamilton (jinxed again)

Constructors Championship: Mercedes

Biggest disappointment of the season: McLaren scores zero points (I was going to write Nico Rosberg here, but that wouldn't fit well with Mercedes winning the Constructors in a neck and neck battle with Ferrari)

Biggest surprise: Haas scores a point

[Hotschi]

Predictions for the 2016 F1 season:

World Champion: Hamilton if he establishes an early lead in the championship - or Rosberg if he prevents this, because then Hamilton is likely to show nerves and makes errors (see season 2011, see Hungaroring 2015)

Runner-up: Rosberg or Hamilton

Mercedes will dominate the season, Barcelona tests gave a slight hint (they didn't even use ultra-softs in their fastest laps). Singapore and Monaco the only probable defeats.

Most Poles Trophy: either Hamilton or Rosberg

Constructors Championship: Mercedes

Biggest disappointment of the season: Red Bull, overtaken by Toro Rosso in the constructor championship

Biggest surprise: Haas scores points

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Hotschi

Predictions for the 2016 F1 season:

World Champion: Hamilton if he establishes an early lead in the championship - or Rosberg if he prevents this, because then Hamilton is likely to show nerves and makes errors (see season 2011, see Hungaroring 2015)

warspite1

Are you saying Rosberg does not suffer from nerves and doesn't make mistakes as a result? So you quote Hungaroring 2015 but don't think Austin worth mentioning? - you know a mistake that LOST the race for Rosberg and WON the title for Lewis? Pretty big mistake there. Oh and Singapore 2009 - yep, pretty big too (needed to apologise to the team for that one), and Belgium 2014 (needed to apologise to the team for that one) and......

But hey, if you think that Lewis is the only guy out there that makes mistakes then fine.....

[Hotschi]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Hotschi

Predictions for the 2016 F1 season:

World Champion: Hamilton if he establishes an early lead in the championship - or Rosberg if he prevents this, because then Hamilton is likely to show nerves and makes errors (see season 2011, see Hungaroring 2015)

warspite1

Are you saying Rosberg does not suffer from nerves and doesn't make mistakes as a result? So you quote Hungaroring 2015 but don't think Austin worth mentioning? - you know a mistake that LOST the race for Rosberg and WON the title for Lewis? Pretty big mistake there. Oh and Singapore 2009 - yep, pretty big too (needed to apologise to the team for that one), and Belgium 2014 (needed to apologise to the team for that one) and......

But hey, if you think that Lewis is the only guy out there that makes mistakes then fine.....

And again you are just building strawmen, and another one, and then another one...

.) Nowhere in my post did I write that Rosberg does not suffer from nerves and doesn't make mistakes as a result.

.) Nowhere in my post did I write or even imply that Hamilton is the only guy out there that makes mistakes.

What I did write should be clear to everyone who reads what's actually there, as it is, and not starts to distort it; I pointed out my thinking of what is the only way Rosberg could win the championship against Lewis Hamilton, and that is to put him under pressure and thus forcing him into mistakes. And that is the reason why I mentioned Hamilton's 2011 sesaon - as one example of Hamilton's mistakes - and the Hungaroring race of 2015 - as another example of Hamilton's mistakes. Any and all mistakes, anytime and anywere, by any other F1 driver, active or retired, dead or alive, successful or unsuccessful, famous or unknown, are irrelevant in this context.

One day, I hope, the time will come when you finally come to terms with reality;


1.) Not everyone here on this planet must be a Lewis Hamilton fan just because you are.

2.) Not everyone who's pointing out a way how one driver could beat Lewis Hamilton, necessarily must be a fan of the driver mentioned (Rosberg in this case).

3.) And - surprise, surprise - not everyone here on this planet, who's interested in Formula 1, must necessarily be a fan of any particular active driver!


On the other hand, strawman fallacies are just one part of the likely problems when one has to deal with fans. Some fans - not all of them - are simply incapabable of thinking outside their box. It's inconceivable to some of them that there's views around which don't fit into their own way of thinking. And it is even more inconceivable to some of these fans that any different views could possibly, even remotely, be in any way correct, or closer to the truth. And, worst, some of these fans even go so far as to consider every criticism of the object of their admiration as nothing short of - heresy.

Just to make it perfectly clear, in order to prevent you from putting up yet another strawman, I am not implying that any of the described "problems with fans" above fits in your case. This is not up to me to decide. That last paragraph above is merely a general observation of fans of any sports.

[warspite1]

Nowhere in my post did I write that Rosberg does not suffer from nerves and doesn't make mistakes as a result.

Please re-read your post. Because you see this as a Mercedes-only fight once more, there are only two drivers in it. If one driver has a weakness that the other does not, one can mention said weakness in exploring possible outcomes. But if both have the same weakness then there is no need to mention it - or, alternatively one can state for example: if one driver gets a lead then the other will lose because they have shown they make mistakes under pressure. That is not what you said. The conclusion, when added to previous comments, is therefore obvious.

World Champion: Hamilton if he establishes an early lead in the championship - or Rosberg if he prevents this, because then Hamilton is likely to show nerves and makes errors (see season 2011, see Hungaroring 2015)

However, even this comment, on its own, may have not even have registered - but see below.

Not everyone who's pointing out a way how one driver could beat Lewis Hamilton, necessarily must be a fan of the driver mentioned (Rosberg in this case).

Strawman? I did not suggest you were a Rosberg fan. I did not understand - and don't - why Lewis is singled out by you for being mistake ridden (see your post no. 664) "almost always makes mistakes" it is quite simply untrue. Please take 30 mins to look at (for example) Vettel's F1 career - I think you will be very surprised by what you have clearly missed.

Not everyone here on this planet must be a Lewis Hamilton fan just because you are.

Correct. And I have never suggested that, not even close.

And - surprise, surprise - not everyone here on this planet, who's interested in Formula 1, must necessarily be a fan of any particular active driver!

Absolutely, but like the comment above, I fail to see why that is a surprise or why you mention it?

As for the penultimate paragraph, I simply don't understand about "thinking outside of the box" in this context. I am not sure what thinking outside a box achieves, when all one needs to do is compare results and, more importantly, look closely at different drivers records, careers and races on an individual basis.

I am simply trying to put across that some (not all) of the comments here on Lewis's driving are simply wrong - and certainly in the context of other drivers. As one contributor to this forum has admitted previously, he cannot look objectively at Lewis as a driver, because he hates him so much on a personal level. I do not put you in that category, but post 664 is wrong - and that is not the comment of a fan; that is a factual comment.

[warspite1]

Out of interest F1 fans, what do you see as the bigger "crime" when assessing drivers?

1. Making mistakes when driving a rubbish car because, as a natural, instinctive racer you are trying to make a recalcitrant beast go faster than it should (or would in the hands of a lesser driver), or

2. Being in a World Championship winning car and either a) losing a Championship through mistakes or b) almost losing one because of mistakes - but luckily getting away with it.

Look at F1 closely. You may be surprised by which drivers (and no I am not just talking Lewis/Nico) fall into which category....

[Gilmer]

I think we can all agree Hamilton tends to make mistakes when he gets frustrated and Nico tends to make mistakes for no reason at all. He gets what we call in America a "case of the stupid". Both are excellent drivers most of the time.

I forget what race it was but Hamilton was way out of it and nowhere close to being in the points - something like 17th or 18th early and car troubles and Nico, I think was in 2nd and made an enormously idiotic try to pass and screwed it up royally and I think he ended with maybe an 8th spot?

[Hotschi]

Warspite, could you please give a short notice when you have finished editing your reply (post #895)? It's difficult to answer when you change content in between, thank you.

[warspite1]

Yes I have finished, trying to post while making the dinner - not a good combination.