Finland campaign

Michael Wermelin · Post by **Michael Wermelin** » Thu Apr 12, 2001 10:10 am

I have just read the book "1944" by Jukka Mäkälä about the summer war 1944 between Soviet and Finland. I bow my head in awe at the decisiveness of the fins struggle for defending their country. The book gives me the thought of a MC about this summer war as well as ideas about the fins OOB. Has any of you fins out there read this book and are there anyone wondering about making a MC about the war?

Sisu neighbours!

skukko · Post by **skukko** » Thu Apr 12, 2001 1:08 pm

After all Finns have played this game for a while, they think about doing campaign of Finns. I think there is many Finns in here, so let time go and stay tuned...but MC? Don't know. But it would be cool...

mosh

Uglykid · Post by **Uglykid** » Thu Apr 12, 2001 1:37 pm

Well, I think there are lots people, who wants to do the scenarios. I think the hardest part is to find maps and accurate information about units.
Ofcourse you can do "something" near the real situation, but it doesnt have the same feeling

skukko · Post by **skukko** » Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:35 pm

MC is like a code, it is copyrighted, far as I know...

mosh

JTGEN · Post by **JTGEN** » Thu Apr 12, 2001 3:06 pm

It would be nice to have a campaign in Finns. But I have no time to do it. And how to make them realistic is problem. Does anybody have any idea where to get information on what Soviets had in those battles. I do not thimk that information is available.

skukko · Post by **skukko** » Thu Apr 12, 2001 5:08 pm

I think sovjets OOB in Finn-front would be quite easy to collect from the books. Not exactly as getting all the sovjets officers, but infantry, arty and AC's. If we who read books of those battles collect material of dates, what were against and AAR's, I believe we got plenty of stuff to start and continue. I for example have have whole Hankoniemi-data in my HD and can point out where and who and results of the battles. And if I want pictures, well, I take a walk with the dog and camera...much of the russian fortification is still in the woods.

And battles in Narva-44 area are quite easy to do, there is info of those battles in several books. Did you know there were Tigers at the shore of Suomenlahti?

mosh

DoubleDeuce · Post by **DoubleDeuce** » Thu Apr 12, 2001 5:37 pm

Might be hard to "accurately" portray this and that could be why it has seemingly been overlooked. I mean duplicating the acts of individual bravery which could turn the tide of a battle. Guess you may have to adjust the OOB's or something.

Just a thought!

ollittm · Post by **ollittm** » Thu Apr 12, 2001 6:34 pm

There was a winter-war campaign for the original SP made by a serious winter war nut.

He might convert his stuff to SPWAW if everyone asked him real nice..

Hmm, since the mega-campaigns are commercial

Mikimoto · Post by **Mikimoto** » Thu Apr 12, 2001 7:05 pm

Hello Finns (and others).
I like the idea of a Winter War Mega Campaign (MCWW?) and I will buy it!!!
A lot of frozen ruskies and a lot of ski troops making hell, there...

Saludos. :p

Tortfeasor · Post by **Tortfeasor** » Fri Apr 13, 2001 4:15 pm

If somebody is going to make a Winter War canpaign.
then here is a Goood site for informatoin on the subjekt in english. http://www.winterwar.com/index.htm

I would attempt to do it but not in this time of year, mayby with SPWAW version 5.?in autumn. (I am a fisherman).

DoubleDeuce · Post by **DoubleDeuce** » Fri Apr 13, 2001 5:53 pm

Tortfeasor - Thanks for that link!

I am setting up a tournament which will include the Finns. I have modified it somewhat in that I am using the TO&E of the Finns, Hungarian, Poles, Belgian and Norwegians. However historic ratings and C&C will be off in an effort to balance play. I am waiting for 5.0 to come out before actually finalizing the OOB's.

If anyone here has more info on any of these countries OOB/TO&E I would appreciate the help.

Thanks.

Arto · Post by **Arto** » Sun Apr 15, 2001 12:39 am

I also like the idea of a Winter War campaign or a Continuation War campaign (summer/fall attack -41 and also the defence battles on summer -44).

But there is only one problem, many american wants only to play USA-campaigns, little Finland and Soviet Union aren´t so interesting (at least I have that image of them) and Mega Campaigns are planned to sell over 3500 copies and I´m not sure would a Finland-campaign sell so much (have you noticed that there is only 3000 registered members in this forum..?).

BryanMelvin · Post by **BryanMelvin** » Sun Apr 15, 2001 12:52 am

One of the future projects at The SP Arsenal - will be a Campaign of the Winter war and the Continuation War. Right now, we are busy getting the new sit up at Matrix after the demise of TGN. As soon as the Arsenl site goes up - we'll begin brianstorming this project - right Mosh??

Please give us ideas on what you would like to see!!

BryanMelvin · Post by **BryanMelvin** » Sun Apr 15, 2001 1:07 am

Originally posted by skukko:
I think sovjets OOB in Finn-front would be quite easy to collect from the books. Not exactly as getting all the sovjets officers, but infantry, arty and AC's. If we who read books of those battles collect material of dates, what were against and AAR's, I believe we got plenty of stuff to start and continue. I for example have have whole Hankoniemi-data in my HD and can point out where and who and results of the battles. And if I want pictures, well, I take a walk with the dog and camera...much of the russian fortification is still in the woods.

And battles in Narva-44 area are quite easy to do, there is info of those battles in several books. Did you know there were Tigers at the shore of Suomenlahti?

mosh

A good place to look is at exesiting board games on the subject. A good one is on the Coninuation War - for ASL - by Critcal Hit. www.critalhit may have info if this ASL mode is still availible.

There are books as well - if you know some - please let us know here on the forum link!

sami heimola · Post by **sami heimola** » Sun Apr 15, 2001 1:14 am

Originally posted by Michael Wermelin:
I have just read the book "1944" by Jukka Mäkälä about the summer war 1944 between Soviet and Finland. I bow my head in awe at the decisiveness of the fins struggle for defending their country. The book gives me the thought of a MC about this summer war as well as ideas about the fins OOB. Has any of you fins out there read this book and are there anyone wondering about making a MC about the war?

Sisu neighbours!

Hmm... Whole commercial Mega Campaign could not be very good idea if we think that Matrix must sell it enough (over 3500 copies as MGNA, I suppose?)... But maybe player-based "long" campaigns about Winter War and Continuation War could be nice

right?

This idea has been discussed several times earlier among Finnish players. But basic problems are:

1. Who will have time/resources/good will to make those campaigns?

2. How to make them enough interesting and balanced (expect give more morale/strenght to Finns against Russian superpower)?

3. I suppose that most of SPWAW players want more tank-based campaigns than only infantry-based (if we think only Winter War, Finns had only few tanks)... Maybe I'm in wrong but most scens for SPWAW are mostly tank-based battles.

As always, I vote for this idea anyway

Hopefully someone player will do them sometimes and share them with others too...

These were my 2 cents (or should I say "markkaa"

?)

Sami

PS. Comments about these things?

Fredde · Post by **Fredde** » Sun Apr 15, 2001 9:19 am

Hello,

Despite not coming from Finland..

I am working on a "regular" campaign following the Finnish ErP 18 battalion during the struggle in 1944 all the way from the stand-still line back to the Finnish border containing all major battles this particular battalion fought.

If you have more books written by Jukka Mäkelä, this battalion is treated in a short part of "Aunuksen Savut" (writing this out of memory.. hope I got the Finnish somewhat right).. "Rök över Aunus" in Swedish, "Smoke over Aunus" in English translation.

This campaign will also be a bit different, since I will send a edited saved game file along with the scenario containing all the correct historical data and names for those who want to play it more realistic.

I'm currently on the 4th scenario of about 12.. so it will still take some time

skukko · Post by **skukko** » Mon Apr 16, 2001 11:22 pm

Howdy guys

Last time something talked about Finn-camp were at last autumn, I should use search-button myself, but I'll waite...

Fredde, keep up good work on your camp'

What it comes to adding finns some elite status before they are capable of fighting against russia: No need to do it. Finns are hardcoded to be bad opponent against everybody

C&C should be ON. This is because sovjets had not so much radios, and this thing is important when playing C&C turned ON. This way game would be balanced and it would be more manageable during designing.

How much would be then be interest to this camp', afterall it is infantry-battles ? This is good question. BUT, if you take and buy one motorized infantry company (should I say horsed?

) and add to it something to deal with tanks, it is enjoyable because of low odds that inf. has to win that fight. (In one scenario I've done, there ain't many tanks in axis side, just three. Inf' has only usuall handheld stuff, but it is blast to win from allied side...) I haven't tested, but I believe we can add quite correct number of early war russians against one company of Finns without a problem. If it is same value as german infantry, it is one to five...

As for designing whole thing: Just add some data changes to some of the MG's and squads of infantry and you'll have those heros. No changes to OOB provided with game because it effects directly to pbems and other scenario-playing... Maps are done by people who have info and willingness, -its not a problem now when WB's school of scenarios have started

.

What about idea of getting 3-5 campaign's to a Finns survival package ? Not one single, but few differend fronts and times? Does it sound good?

let me know...

mosh

Grumble · Post by **Grumble** » Tue Apr 17, 2001 3:23 am

Lead's in...

Cajous · Post by **Cajous** » Tue Apr 17, 2001 3:34 am

Originally posted by BryanMelvin:
A good place to look is at exesiting board games on the subject. A good one is on the Coninuation War - for ASL - by Critcal Hit. www.critalhit may have info if this ASL mode is still availible.

There are books as well - if you know some - please let us know here on the forum link!

The Winter War-Russia against Finland by Richard W Condon (Ballantines Illustrated History of the Violent Century-camp. book #24) great Bibliography

Kluckenbill · Post by **Kluckenbill** » Tue Apr 17, 2001 5:35 am

Originally posted by Michael Wermelin:
I have just read the book "1944" by Jukka Mäkälä about the summer war 1944 between Soviet and Finland.

Anyone know if this is out in English (I might even be able to struggle through in German but I don't know a word of Finnish.) It sounds interesting but I couldn't find it on Amazon.