Fortifications fun!

[tom730_slith]

I am in no way an expert at this game, just a player that has a LOT of fun doing Solitaire Global. Still learning and trying new things.
My latest Global War I've been experimenting with adding Forts to the USSR build mix, starting early on (pre-invasion)
By setting up well behind the border and linking with cities and river lines it severely limits the Axis options for "easy" break-throughs. Anything that slows them down without eating up too many Soviet units is a big plus.
What do others think of Forts on the Eastern Front?

[Mayhemizer_slith]

I'm not an expert of this game, but few of them can cause some pain to Germans.

I would place one to Leningrad NW towards Finland.

Can fortifications be build in mountains? If it is possible, have anyone ever tried to fortify Caucasian mountains so that Germans can't break it at all? Most of those hexes can be attacked only from one hex, few from two hexes.

[Courtenay]

I am not a fan of fortifications. I prefer units that can move. Positions don't last long; either you are moving backwards or forward. If I were using fortifications, the only place I would always fortify is the Gibraltar land hex side, and even that I would not expect to make any difference, because the Axis would just use an engineer.

[paulderynck]

I too would use them very sparingly. Another issue is they can't be placed in an enemy ZoC, so upon arrival, they may not be able to go where you planned. The west hexside of Smolensk and west hexside of Rostov are good spots. If the Germans concentrate their engineers all to the north or south of the Pripets, then the forts go to the opposite sector.

[AlbertN]

Mostly for their cost - covering only 1 hexside - I'd rather have an extra INF where possibly to be honest.
Forts can be nice on a long line where there is a river too but then again you lose 1 hex and if you lose the line you lose a bunch of BPs which you cannot surely save.

[alexvand]

I use them as the Axis far more.

I often build a Western Wall. It can really give the Western Allies fits if you put forts along the rivers in France. Paris is a great spot for a pile of forts. I've also done the same around Warsaw. I've also built various Bavarian style redoubts.

I don't find that the Russians can spare the BPs.

[paulderynck]

Even in Paris, the Allies can outflank it, and put all the defenders OoS and then wait until they are all ground struck. Playing without the isolated re-org option makes it a somewhat better tactic, but a long summer turn will usually do the job.

Or a Land O-chit with some engineers attacking.

[Centuur]

I'm somewhat in the middle where forts are concerned. I don't believe in building forts for river lines. I agree with Paul on that account. However: what's a "close the Med" strategy, without building forts in Gibraltar and Tangiers? It's the front door to Italy and if the Axis put two white print MTN and a MTN division in a fortified Gibraltar and Tangiers you simply say: good luck and try to take it back, since that's 21 combat factors defending when disorganised in conjunction with the halvings of the fort hexes... So you insure that the Allies need to use ENG and offensive and Para's to have even a reasonable chance of taking those hexes. That's not easy done, even if the Allies control the skies of the Western Med, so the Axis can't get things like defensive shore bombardment and ground support into the attacked hex.

Thing is: I believe that the Axis should try to steer the Allies away from certain positions. I rather have a war in France on my hands with the Med still an Italian lake as compared to the Allies breaking into the Med and trying to conquer Italy as the Axis...

[brian brian]

I like a couple spots for Forts for the Russians.

A pair of ARM and an AT in a fort is a very, very tough nut for the Germans to crack, if the flanks are held well.

[paulderynck]

Bypass, ground strike, mop up. The Russians can't put a fort on every hex.

[Jagdtiger14]

Pretty much agree with Centuur...although the Allies have a solution to that. As for the Russians, I think they begin the game with two sides? I always put one in Leningrad as Mayhemizer wrote above, and probably the second one at Dnepropetrovsk and then seriously consider buying a one side to complete the non-river sides...so for two BP's I make it a little harder. Otherwise that's it. One game as a newbie I heavily defended Rostov including 4 sides of forts...the Germans took it like nothing was there...ENG, PARA, airpower, etc...

Was there not a recent addition to WiF that included some kind of 'fort' rather than fortress at some lesser cost?...the chit image was a circular fort...maybe something interesting for the Japs or CW?

[brian brian]

KiF (I think? FiF?) included "Coastal Fortification" markers that add +1, +2 or +3 to notional units vs invasion.


I just like some Forts for the USSR in some odd corners. I don't bother standing on any of the river lines, etc. but aim for a mostly mobile defense anyway. Run Away! What is the air-speed map velocity of a Stuka? Not as fast as a T-34 or Ford trucks either.

[paulderynck]

Still only worth their value if OoS or surprised, Coastal Forts don't halve attackers, they just stop Marines from moving into their hex across an all-sea hexside.

They are not very intimidating without a real land unit in their hex, preferably a white print one.

[alexvand]

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

Even in Paris, the Allies can outflank it, and put all the defenders OoS and then wait until they are all ground struck. Playing without the isolated re-org option makes it a somewhat better tactic, but a long summer turn will usually do the job.

Or a Land O-chit with some engineers attacking.

All true, but if the Allies have to spend an O-chit on it. That's worth it. Late game Axis play is all about buying every impulse you can. Forts can add an impulse or two here and there, which really adds up.

Of course, you have to have enough BPs to build the things. If you've still got land units in your pools, build those!

[Joseignacio]

I think I have never bought fortifications except once, for Gibraltar and was for nothing.

But it seems most interesting as a not so expensive way to defend the Dnepropetrovsk-Kiev line through making this cities harder to take, with just a few fortresses. Not to speak of spending a bit more and create a Nikolayev-Kiev line and make the GE spend an O- chit...Although to be correctly done this would need 13 BPs. A fortress side costs 1 ¿right?

[Orm]

A fortress side costs 1 ¿right?

No. It costs 2 build points and take 5 turns.

[Centuur]

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio

I think I have never bought fortifications except once, for Gibraltar and was for nothing.

But it seems most interesting as a not so expensive way to defend the Dnepropetrovsk-Kiev line through making this cities harder to take, with just a few fortresses. Not to speak of spending a bit more and create a Nikolayev-Kiev line and make the GE spend an O- chit...Although to be correctly done this would need 13 BPs. A fortress side costs 1 ¿right?

Why was it for nothing? Did the Allies crack a fortified Gibraltar or bypassed it? I'm a little curious...

[Mayhemizer_slith]

Leningrad is already difficult to take (if there is Leningrad MIL, good white printed INF and ENG). What if USSR builds few fortifications also? How much would it hurt Germany if they can't take it?

[AlbertN]

It's a VP less though I'd rather put an AA in Leningrad than an ENG; and evaluate if to build there a Synth Oil.
The AA can be handy vs planes, and the hardest hitting units are armoured - including the strongest Finnish unit which is winterized by default.

I'd keep the ENG elsewhere for offensive operations, meanwhile at once I ensure that the Red Print factory, if not seized will keeps producing for the Soviets.

[Centuur]

Is Leningrad important enough for Germany to take it? Or can they simply bypass it with some units screening the place?

I've concluded a long time ago, that Leningrad should only be taken if Germany has a good chance of conquering the USSR. Since that usually only happens in games where the Axis are really lucky, I don't believe the build points which the USSR needs to spend on fortifications are worth it. The USSR needs boots on the floor and planes in the sky. To spend 8-12 build points is an equivelent of 4 INF. That's far too much...

And that red factory will not produce anything for the USSR when Leningrad is cut off from resources...