Tale of the Sheep! - JocMeister (A) vs. Lowpe (J)

[JocMeister]

MM,

We will have to agree to disagree here. We have two very different experiences when it comes to subs. I´m not saying I´m right and I have very clearly stated on many occasions that I have nothing to back my feeling up with but my own experiences.

But this does not automatically make your experience the "right one". I still believe there is something in the code the differentiates allied and Japanese subs. That something seems to give Japanese subs an increased chance of evading Allied ASW efforts and attack capital ships.

Want to take a guess where this is from?

[JocMeister]

PS. Both kids have some kind of stomach flu and I´ve cleaned more vomit and changed more beds then I ever thought I would. Oh, and I slept no longer then 30 minutes tonight.

Probably won´t be any turns done until this passes.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

PS. Both kids have some kind of stomach flu and I´ve cleaned more vomit and changed more beds then I ever thought I would. Oh, and I slept no longer then 30 minutes tonight.

Probably won´t be any turns done until this passes.

Ugh! Just put an air mattress in the bathtub and lay the little ones in there! Cleanup is a breeze![:D]

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

MM,

We will have to agree to disagree here. We have two very different experiences when it comes to subs. I´m not saying I´m right and I have very clearly stated on many occasions that I have nothing to back my feeling up with but my own experiences.

But this does not automatically make your experience the "right one". I still believe there is something in the code the differentiates allied and Japanese subs. That something seems to give Japanese subs an increased chance of evading Allied ASW efforts and attack capital ships.

Want to take a guess where this is from?

Absolutely no evidence of that.

Did you read the extract?

"will attempt to attack capital ships"

Not will attack, not avoid ASW; will attempt to attack capital ships. Merely an increased chance to target a capital ship in a sub encounter. Your ASW still works as well as it would with this on as it would with this off.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

MM,

We will have to agree to disagree here. We have two very different experiences when it comes to subs. I´m not saying I´m right and I have very clearly stated on many occasions that I have nothing to back my feeling up with but my own experiences.

But this does not automatically make your experience the "right one". I still believe there is something in the code the differentiates allied and Japanese subs. That something seems to give Japanese subs an increased chance of evading Allied ASW efforts and attack capital ships.

Want to take a guess where this is from?

Absolutely no evidence of that.

Did you read the extract?

"will attempt to attack capital ships"

Not will attack, not avoid ASW; will attempt to attack capital ships. Merely an increased chance to target a capital ship in a sub encounter. Your ASW still works as well as it would with this on as it would with this off.

I agree that in all I have seen this does not seem to be the case.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

MM,

We will have to agree to disagree here. We have two very different experiences when it comes to subs. I´m not saying I´m right and I have very clearly stated on many occasions that I have nothing to back my feeling up with but my own experiences.

But this does not automatically make your experience the "right one". I still believe there is something in the code the differentiates allied and Japanese subs. That something seems to give Japanese subs an increased chance of evading Allied ASW efforts and attack capital ships.

Want to take a guess where this is from?

A couple of things here. First off, that switch is for targeting. The operative notion was that subs would not use up their torpedoes, or in some cases reveal themselves, by attacking lowly targets. That does not grant IJN subs any special abilities in the game. IRL they were real killers early on. In-game early on, USN ship experience is mostly poor and escorts have fewer and smaller ASW weapons than they will get later on. IJN subs have (many) good to excellent commanders, plus their crew experience is a large factor. It all adds up - no mystery!

The second thing is that I have read more than once that such was not true in practice and results (IRL, I mean), that IJN subs targeted plenty of merchantmen. True or not, you would have to research for yourself. I was convinced at the time I read it, so I no longer consider "Japanese Sub Doctrine" to be a useful switch as IMO it is unrealistic.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: witpqs


The second thing is that I have read more than once that such was not true in practice and results (IRL, I mean), that IJN subs targeted plenty of merchantmen. True or not, you would have to research for yourself. I was convinced at the time I read it, so I no longer consider "Japanese Sub Doctrine" to be a useful switch as IMO it is unrealistic.

It's also a switch from WITP! [8D] At least I think it was.

I believe Jocke was arguing the code is still somewhere in the AE EXE. But it's not a game option any more.

[JocMeister]

Again,

Lets agree to disagree.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

PS. Both kids have some kind of stomach flu and I´ve cleaned more vomit and changed more beds then I ever thought I would. Oh, and I slept no longer then 30 minutes tonight.

Sorry for it all.

Of interest to me, who teaches adult ESL, is that "stomach flu" is used in Sweden. It's used here too, but I'd have thought the "purer" English of a second-language would have filtered it out. It's not really flu.

I just went through this with a friend, who works in a pharmacy (!!), claiming she had "stomach flu" and shouldn't, as she had had a flu shot. I argued for food poisoning. Not exactly gas-station-sushi food poisoning, but she had eaten some protein foods she ought not have.

Gastroenteritis. Many sources, but not, so far as I know, the influenza virus of upper-respiratory fame.

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
I believe Jocke was arguing the code is still somewhere in the AE EXE. But it's not a game option any more.

Exactly!

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Again,

Lets agree to disagree.

You are still saying it must be code? It has to be code?

Effectiveness of IJN subs to hit your ships (not sure you've one a survey to show other players experiencing the same thing, which they would if it were in the code) could be a number of the things together that are in the other details, as witpqs points out. In the many years this game has been out why hasn't anyone thought something might be a bit fishy?

I'll add it to my list of things to test!! [;)]

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
I believe Jocke was arguing the code is still somewhere in the AE EXE. But it's not a game option any more.

Exactly!

...I'm pretty sure that the last time this came up, someone commented on it being out...

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: obvert
You are still saying it must be code? It has to be code?

No, I´m saying that there is a possibility that some legacy code still exists within the game that makes Japanese subs behave differently from Allied.

I agree, start testing... [;)]

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

ORIGINAL: obvert
You are still saying it must be code? It has to be code?

No, I´m saying that there is a possibility that some legacy code still exists within the game that makes Japanese subs behave differently from Allied.

I agree, start testing... [;)]

Will do. It'll take me a while to figure out in the editor how to flood a hex with 150 Allied ships and then another 20-30 IJN subs! [;)]

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

PS. Both kids have some kind of stomach flu and I´ve cleaned more vomit and changed more beds then I ever thought I would. Oh, and I slept no longer then 30 minutes tonight.

Sorry for it all.

Of interest to me, who teaches adult ESL, is that "stomach flu" is used in Sweden. It's used here too, but I'd have thought the "purer" English of a second-language would have filtered it out. It's not really flu.

I just went through this with a friend, who works in a pharmacy (!!), claiming she had "stomach flu" and shouldn't, as she had had a flu shot. I argued for food poisoning. Not exactly gas-station-sushi food poisoning, but she had eaten some protein foods she ought not have.

Gastroenteritis. Many sources, but not, so far as I know, the influenza virus of upper-respiratory fame.

But some 'food poisoning' pathogens can be passed hand to hand and such, too.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: witpqs
But some 'food poisoning' pathogens can be passed hand to hand and such, too.

Sure. Gastroenteritis has many causes. But a lot of laymen think it's "flu", and like my friend wonder when they get it after a flu shot. I don't know the terminology history; probably at least a century I bet.

[paullus99]

I've had Gastroenteritis - I'd rather have the Flu.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: paullus99

I've had Gastroenteritis - I'd rather have the Flu.

Preach it!

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: witpqs
But some 'food poisoning' pathogens can be passed hand to hand and such, too.

Sure. Gastroenteritis has many causes. But a lot of laymen think it's "flu", and like my friend wonder when they get it after a flu shot. I don't know the terminology history; probably at least a century I bet.

People say they are sick with a bug all the time, too. Just a common use of the term instead a precise use.

[Uncivil Engineer]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

PS. Both kids have some kind of stomach flu and I´ve cleaned more vomit and changed more beds then I ever thought I would. Oh, and I slept no longer then 30 minutes tonight.

Sorry for it all.

Of interest to me, who teaches adult ESL, is that "stomach flu" is used in Sweden. It's used here too, but I'd have thought the "purer" English of a second-language would have filtered it out. It's not really flu.

I just went through this with a friend, who works in a pharmacy (!!), claiming she had "stomach flu" and shouldn't, as she had had a flu shot. I argued for food poisoning. Not exactly gas-station-sushi food poisoning, but she had eaten some protein foods she ought not have.

Gastroenteritis. Many sources, but not, so far as I know, the influenza virus of upper-respiratory fame.

Did I get on webmd by mistake??

On the sub subject being discussed - and playing as Japan in mid-42 - my subs are having some success (just put down a CL), but are mostly being hammered by Allied ASW. I've got about 8-10 subs being repaired at Truk (fortunately they can be), and about 5 heading back to Yokohama to fix more severe damage. My ASW get only a few hits on Allied subs (if any). Mines have been my best defense.