A family affair - Speedy vs El Padre

[Speedysteve]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: Speedy

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Oscar IIb are very good, but it is somewhat late for them.

Barring very poor pilots, you are most likely using them poorly.... i.e your settings are bad, plus with LRCAP they are starting off with one foot already in the grave.

Thanks. They were flying at 15K feet, 1 hex from target. 2/3 of the pilots were 70 EXP/70 air

Was it LRCAP or CAP with a range of 1. Give us a picture of your squadron settings, and at what Altitude the Allies swept at.

LRCAP. Attached are what the settings were.

No Allied sweeps. It was fighting CAP over their base (Mandalay) and intercepting bombing raids on my troops. For example:

Morning Air attack on 4th Division, at 59,46 (Mandalay)

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-IIb Oscar x 37



Allied aircraft
Blenheim VD x 12
Hurricane IIc Trop x 8
Liberator II x 6
Vengeance I x 32
Spitfire Vc Trop x 7
B-24D1 Liberator x 5
B-25C Mitchell x 3
B-25D1 Mitchell x 18
P-40K Warhawk x 22


Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-IIb Oscar: 12 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Blenheim VD: 1 damaged
Liberator II: 1 damaged
Vengeance I: 4 damaged
B-25C Mitchell: 2 damaged
B-25D1 Mitchell: 2 damaged
P-40K Warhawk: 3 destroyed

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

ORIGINAL: Speedy
Do you take the frugal view of (almost literally) a TK is sunk so you start to produce one only then?

If you have good understanding on how overland oil/fuel transfers work between bases, you can indeed roll with very few TKs and not make more VPs available to Allies later.
One more useful trick is to stop ships in the building queue 1-2 days before they are commissioned, so that you can restart and quickly have a replacement for your sunk ones when need arises.

Yep, Mike Solli trick.

If you've lost a bunch of TK's, then you need to get some more built, but if you haven't ... why spend the HI to build allied VP?

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: Speedy

Thanks Pax.

Number 2, definitely number 2[;)] I wasn't going for auto-Vic unless it turned out great in the first 4 months. Isn't my aircraft prod at around 1000 if all on just to be picky? [;)]

In the only screen I could see, it looked bigger. That was why more screenshots needed.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: Speedy

I love my subs and have a good track record with them in all my games so building all them except the SST's

All IJB's love their subs until mid-43. Then somewhere around Aug/Sep 43 the allies get their first ASW bonus bump and they start sinking them like crazy.
They get another one sometime in '44.

[Lowpe]

A few things, that should help.


Set your target!!!

Get more radar sets there. 7 minutes for a large bombing run is very poor.

Set range to 0. You don't need to cover a huge area. When you select a target, the range is then from the target.

Only in emergencies would I use 100 percent cap. I always use at least 10 percent rest. Not everyone does this, and for one off mission with rested squadrons you don't need it, but if the squadron in in combat day in day out, a rest percentage will save planes. IMHO, thoughts vary on this.

You need to include all the combat summary ... that let us know time to ftrs to get to target, time for defense to get into place....very important.

I really dislike having only one squadron at one altitude in CAP or in this case LRCAP.

Your fighters were higher than the bombing run by too much for my personal tastes. However, I really need to see the entire combat summary to help more.

I realize this is post attack, but your morale is 27.

My guess is you only had 12 planes actually in combat, perhaps coming in piecemeal because the planes were trying to cover a huge area and getting shot down by the massed escorts. Won't know for sure until I see the full combat summary.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: Speedy

I love my subs and have a good track record with them in all my games so building all them except the SST's

All IJB's love their subs until mid-43. Then somewhere around Aug/Sep 43 the allies get their first ASW bonus bump and they start sinking them like crazy.
They get another one sometime in '44.

Still love them. Their primary mission simply changes, and by setting them to be a little more cautious they can survive and do good work for as long as you have fuel.

[Lowpe]

It is really late in the game to be making A6M2.[X(]

Have you posted your plane r&d lately?

[Speedysteve]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

ORIGINAL: Speedy
Do you take the frugal view of (almost literally) a TK is sunk so you start to produce one only then?

If you have good understanding on how overland oil/fuel transfers work between bases, you can indeed roll with very few TKs and not make more VPs available to Allies later.
One more useful trick is to stop ships in the building queue 1-2 days before they are commissioned, so that you can restart and quickly have a replacement for your sunk ones when need arises.

Yep, Mike Solli trick.

If you've lost a bunch of TK's, then you need to get some more built, but if you haven't ... why spend the HI to build allied VP?

Ok thanks

[Speedysteve]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

A few things, that should help.


Set your target!!!

Get more radar sets there. 7 minutes for a large bombing run is very poor.

Set range to 0. You don't need to cover a huge area. When you select a target, the range is then from the target.

Only in emergencies would I use 100 percent cap. I always use at least 10 percent rest. Not everyone does this, and for one off mission with rested squadrons you don't need it, but if the squadron in in combat day in day out, a rest percentage will save planes. IMHO, thoughts vary on this.

You need to include all the combat summary ... that let us know time to ftrs to get to target, time for defense to get into place....very important.

I really dislike having only one squadron at one altitude in CAP or in this case LRCAP.

Your fighters were higher than the bombing run by too much for my personal tastes. However, I really need to see the entire combat summary to help more.

I realize this is post attack, but your morale is 27.

My guess is you only had 12 planes actually in combat, perhaps coming in piecemeal because the planes were trying to cover a huge area and getting shot down by the massed escorts. Won't know for sure until I see the full combat summary.

Hi Lowpe,

Target was set to Mandalay (my screenshot was me showing what the settings were like in my current turn). No chance of Radar in that hex as it's not my base (I was LRCAPing my troops at enemy held Mandalay).

Pre-attack morale was 70-80ish.

Here's the full summary:

Morning Air attack on 4th Division, at 59,46 (Mandalay)

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-IIb Oscar x 37



Allied aircraft
Blenheim VD x 12
Hurricane IIc Trop x 8
Liberator II x 6
Vengeance I x 32
Spitfire Vc Trop x 7
B-24D1 Liberator x 5
B-25C Mitchell x 3
B-25D1 Mitchell x 18
P-40K Warhawk x 22


Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-IIb Oscar: 12 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Blenheim VD: 1 damaged
Liberator II: 1 damaged
Vengeance I: 4 damaged
B-25C Mitchell: 2 damaged
B-25D1 Mitchell: 2 damaged
P-40K Warhawk: 3 destroyed

Japanese ground losses:
113 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 14 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 13 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled



Aircraft Attacking:
16 x Vengeance I bombing from 8000 feet
Ground Attack: 2 x 500 lb GP Bomb, 2 x 250 lb GP Bomb
16 x Vengeance I bombing from 8000 feet
Ground Attack: 2 x 500 lb GP Bomb, 2 x 250 lb GP Bomb
12 x Blenheim VD bombing from 8000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 250 lb GP Bomb
3 x Liberator II bombing from 8000 feet
Ground Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x Liberator II bombing from 8000 feet
Ground Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb
5 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 8000 feet
Ground Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
5 x B-25D1 Mitchell bombing from 8000 feet
Ground Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb
13 x B-25D1 Mitchell bombing from 8000 feet
Ground Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-25C Mitchell bombing from 8000 feet
Ground Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
25th Sentai with Ki-43-IIb Oscar (37 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
37 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000
Raid is overhead

[Speedysteve]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

It is really late in the game to be making A6M2.[X(]

Have you posted your plane r&d lately?

Yup. R&D facs are posted above

[PaxMondo]

OK, wow.

There are a lot of ways to analyze this and you should do them all.
1. Engines
2. Model Progression by Type (F, LB, DB, etc) and IJA/IJN
3. Timing
4. Model run rates

Let me start with engines first.
Ha-31 - you have a ton. Not sure what your plans are here. Nick uses them. You have 500 Nicks worth in your pool. That is a LOT.
Ha-32 - 180/495. This is pretty good depending upon your ultimate models. But you should have time to adapt.
Ha-33 231/1252. A lot of models end up using this engine. If you plan to build ~2000 Ac/month, 50% would be this engines roughly. Your pool is good, but your production is worrisome.
Ha-34 200/635. Tojo and Helen use this.
Ha-35 The old standard. 231/493. Should be ok if you have gotten this far.
Ha-45 The new standard. 95/498. Most of your final planes will use this. Sam, Frank, Grace, Peggy, George, etc. You need LOT more productio capacity.
Ha-42/43/44 depends upon the models you choose.

Your initial analysis here is to expand Ha-33, 45 and maybe 34 production. You won't right now, but you need to be thinking about it.
I would convert the Ha-31 to Ha-45 and ramp that up. Any other increase can be done with the factories you have.

You will come back to engines once the other analyses are completed.

So let me translate this into 1944 production rates for you:
You will only be able to build ~680 planes/month because of engine limitations and MOST of your fighters will be A6M/Oscar. You will not be happy with your A2A results with those aircraft against TBolts and Spits.
You're now looking to find ~1M supply to be able to build/expand the engine factories that you will need.

[PaxMondo]

Model Progression
I'll do a few for examples. I would encourage you to do all the rest.

This is what you have setup right now:

Code: Select all

 IJN fighter:
 CV Capable
 A6M2  1x56, 1x30   Ha-35
 A6M5c 4x30         Ha-35
 A7M2  2x30         Ha-43
 
 Land Based
 George1 3x30       Ha-45
 George2 4x30       Ha-45
 Sinden 2x30        Ha-43
 

My first thought is that i am surprised that you have been able to get this far with only 3xA6M2/day replacements.
You've also got 3/day George replacements now. Total IJN fighter production: 6/day.

You have another 4x30 factories RnD on the A6M5c, which will soon give you A6M production = 7/day.
You have A7M RnD of 2x30

Ultimate fighter:
CV: Sam A7M2. You're going to be stuck with the A6M series though as long as you have any CV's. You won't get a7M until mid '45.
LBA: Shinden.


Right now you look like:

Code: Select all

 A6M2 90           Ha-35
 George1 3x30      Ha-45
 

So as your research completes you will migrate to your final production which you current have setup to look something like this:

Code: Select all

 Sam 2x30          Ha-43
 George5 7x30      Ha-43
 Shinden 2x30      Ha-43
 

George5 isn't that much worse than Sam. Shinden is really good, but you won't get it until really late.
9-11 IJN fighters/day is reasonable target (270-330/month).

My concerns are that you are going to be flying A6M as your primary IJN fighter for most of '43 continuing until mid-44 when you will get the George2.
Thats a long time and the A6M is already outclass by many of the allied fighters... you may need to get more George into production sooner.

Realistic RnD means you really, really have to plan your RnD out and changes to your original plan are that much more difficult to put in place.
So, while you might wish for Sam/Shinden earlier, at this point it will be difficult to influence the arrival dates. I think you need to think 'George' for the rest of this game.
Not all that bad though, George is a good Land Based Fighter that will give you good service through '44 and into early '45. The last models of TBolts and Stangs though will eat it up.
The two holes you have are: CV based fighter now until late '45 and LBA fighter after mid-'45. These are what EVERY JFB faces though, so no big deal.

[Lowpe]

Working off a tablet here due to storms, but you are definitely behind fighter curve.

Don't discount jack...final version comes months earlier than George, version two has sr2, and better climb.

You really need to speed up Frank A. You will have a tough time in the air, till you get them.

I would figure out how much supply you can spend, and put most of it into Frank and the rest into George or/and Jack. More later,

Army fighters outnumber Navy fighters three to one after the early 44 expansion.

[Lowpe]

If you have troops in a hex, then there is no reason why you can't also have radar there.

More later...

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


Army fighters outnumber Navy fighters three to one after the early 44 expansion.

+1

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Don't discount jack...final version comes months earlier than George, version two has sr2, and better climb.

I don't think he should change to Jack now.

Facts:
1. He is realistic RnD.
2. He has already committed 4x30 RnD to George

Reasoning:
1. Don't think committing more RnD factories to George/Jack a good idea, he needs them elsewhere far more urgently.
2. George/Jack same role fighters. Duplication not a good use of assets.

Choosing Jack or George is a toss up to me. However, I strongly recommend only one of the two. They are both 2nd Gen LBA IJN Fighters that are competitive until early 45.
George has an early armament and range advantage. Jack has a final SR and engine advantage. But truth is they both work about the same, so choosing one is the best choice.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Don't discount jack...final version comes months earlier than George, version two has sr2, and better climb.

I don't think he should change to Jack now.

Facts:
1. He is realistic RnD.
2. He has already committed 4x30 RnD to George

Reasoning:
1. Don't think committing more RnD factories to George/Jack a good idea, he needs them elsewhere far more urgently.
2. George/Jack same role fighters. Duplication not a good use of assets.

Choosing Jack or George is a toss up to me. However, I strongly recommend only one of the two. They are both 2nd Gen LBA IJN Fighters that are competitive until early 45.
George has an early armament and range advantage. Jack has a final SR and engine advantage. But truth is they both work about the same, so choosing one is the best choice.

George has offensive abilities that the Jack simply doesn't have.[:)]

Jack has defensive abilities, comes earlier than George. [:)]

By my count he has a dozen factories that can switch r&d. I would be sorely tempted to put one into the Jack and build it large...say 150 starting now maybe even larger. It will start production in 9/43 with acceleration and even better be ready to upgrade to model 2 on 4/44 and again in Jan 45.

The beauty of the Jack is you can field a fair number in a very reasonable time frame without dedicating a ton of r&d facilities to it.

I would put almost all the others into Frank A. Here I would push the panic button.

But then again, he knows how aggressive the Allies will likely be. I think Sam is probably not possible, at least very unlikely, and I would probably throw the final George into that category.

I think we are in for tough sledding in this game.[:(]

[PaxMondo]

Here are the two. Jack has 12.5% better climb, comes earlier, and easier engine. George has 25% better armament, higher ceiling. To me a wash. YMMV.
I do agree, you have to think about another 5ac/day production for LBA IJN Fighter. So either George or Jack.

[PaxMondo]

2nd one

[Speedysteve]

Thanks guys. Lots to think on. I've now changed the Ha-31's to produce Ha-45's Will need to think on the rest, make notes and plan again. Work prevents that over the next 24 or so hours though.

You make it sound like I've woken up in another universe surrounded by Zombies like in Walking Dead[;)][:D]. I accept (as a 'newbie' to the Japs) that I may have made some production errors/oversights (it being my first Japanese game in AE) but tactically I feel I can beat my Dad 2/3+ of the times and to date it has been that way (except the main CV battle which, genuinely, was more down to luck and weather). Think my 10 years of Allied play helps with the tactical play. I still feel I have a decent chance in the war but accept it's key I tweak production where I can to make that more of a chance of hanging on.

If there's anything else you can think of, would be appreciated, otherwise I'll think and plan on what you said.

Thanks again,

Speedy