Defensive setup

mjpatterson · Post by **mjpatterson** » Thu May 29, 2003 7:27 am

I've been playing for only a short time, but I'm really having trouble in the defensive scenarios. I'm playing the WWII campaign as the Germans. I need specific help of proper deployment of my 88's, I never seem to have them in a position get good shots on the Polish light armor. Is it better to deploy infantry on the VH's with entrechment or place them near the VH and after the AI shells the VH's to move them in on the next turn? They are taking losses and getting suppressed by the aty bombardment at the beggining of every turn. (I'm sure these are very remedial questions to all you vets, but I really am trying to learn all that I can.

MJ

Irinami · Post by **Irinami** » Thu May 29, 2003 8:18 am

Here's my advice:

Are you familiar with the reverse-slope position? Place your infantry and light A/T weapons in the opposite side of the hill from the enemy. This way, you will be able to opfire on them when they crest the hill, and at short range--so you can assault, and your A/T weapons have the best chance of penetration. Now, large A/T and machineguns you put on the hill behind the first hill. (If there is no hill--or no hill in visible range of the top of the hill--then choose defensive terrain.) They can then support the stuff on the reverse-slope position, and are far enough away to not be immediately ground to dust.

As for V/H's... I'd suggest not deploying on top of them. Why? Well think... for one, the AI will bomb the VH's some, and any Human player will bomb them for sure. Then, if/when the enemy takes those VH's, you've given them nice entrenched hexes to defend there. So deploy in front of them, ideally with one or two behind the VH's to discourage flanking.

If you want more detail (and don't mind taking your time), post a specific scenario and I (and probably a million others) will help you set up a good defensive position in that one.

Orzel Bialy · Post by **Orzel Bialy** » Thu May 29, 2003 8:36 am

There are probably a dozen methods that can be effectively employed against an AI commanded offensive...but only about half that number that work against humans. (just a reminder for Pbems):)

Anyways, it seems like you are starting to become aware of the basics already.

The AI will always pound the areas surrounding the VH's with arty, so deploy troops nearby but not directly on them. I like to find areas that have a nice LoS (line of sight) that cover the approach lanes to the VH's (maybe four or five hexes away from the VH's)...and then place my infantry and MG's there.

Besides regular infantry...remember to deploy a screen of scouts, to find the enemy first and perhaps delay or mis-direct them. A good mortar battery (or 2) is also helpful to lay down your best friend in SPWAW...SMOKE!

As for the 88's. The one thing to remember is while they are powerful, they are large targets...easy to spot when they open fire and can be suppressed with arty if not handled properly.

Here's some tips for the 88's.
1. Turn their op-fire range down to 3 or less...so they aren't taking long range pot shots at distant targets and giving away their positions too soon.
2. Buy prime movers and stage them nearby...you will need to move them from time to time to avoid arty fire.
3. Use your own light armor to draw the enemy armor out into the open...then let the 88's rip. Of course don't let enemy units get too close before opening fire...anything closer than four or five hexes and the 88's might suffer suppression effects.
4. Try placing the 88's on the flanks at first...so they catch enemy armor with flank shots. Then move them to other pre-picked gun positions to continue the blasting and avoid counter-fire.

Anyway...that's just a few tatics to try out. Hope they help.

mjpatterson · Post by **mjpatterson** » Thu May 29, 2003 8:38 pm

OK thanks! That worked great, both the 88 setup (4 kills) and the towed AT on the "downslope" of hills backed with MG's in range proved to good, efficient killers.

Now another question, when the AI fires it's own aty, is the "smoke" way behind their lines an indication that the aty are positioned in the area? Or is the AI "smart" enough to smoke areas to make me think that's where the aty are located?

Jim1954 · Post by **Jim1954** » Thu May 29, 2003 9:19 pm

Nope, the AI ain't that smart. That's the arty park. Now some consider it unsporting to dump HE on unspotted smoke plumes. Personally, I won't till I can F7 it with a unit. Course the AI won't get p*ssed off at you if you do it and he doesn't. If you ever venture into PBEM you will find a whole different set of tactical challenges to overcome.

mjpatterson · Post by **mjpatterson** » Thu May 29, 2003 11:38 pm

Thanks for the tip, I'll play the "fair" way so that one day I can get creamed against real players.....

*edit* How do I upgrade my core units between scenarios in campaign mode?

Jim1954 · Post by **Jim1954** » Thu May 29, 2003 11:56 pm

I have had to re-learn how to do things against an opponent that actually thinks back. Now they WILL put up false smoke just to mislead you. In fact, deception is a much bigger player against a human, and as my current foe points out (while whipping me senseless), intelligence, hence RECON!!!! is everything in PBEM.

I made the mistake of getting complacent in my tactics vs. AI only. Now I'm back in school!

But hell, it's still fun.

You should come up to a screen that gives you the choice to repair or upgrade a unit between battles. Hint... don't waste the points to repair a unit that you are upgrading. When you upgrade, all the damage to a unit gets fixed.

rbrunsman · Post by **rbrunsman** » Fri May 30, 2003 12:05 am

MJ, thanks for deciding to be "fair" as you call it. For myself, I try to think in terms of what is "sporting." It's annoying when someone pulls an unsporting tactic on you (but you have to be very lenient with what is considered unsporting/unfair actions by your opponent, because not everyone intends to pull dirty tricks on you. It is a matter of interpretation and degree). So keep an open mind and join the PBEM fun!:)

Jim, explain why you wouldn't fire on "unseen" smoke plumes. I understand that in WWII there were some pretty good techniques for locating arty positions even if they parks couldn't be seen. I, myself, avoid targeting individual plumes, but if you'
re going to park your arty in a bunch, I can only assume you have an ammo dump right there and then it is fair to bomb it since you are doing an ahistorical thing to gain more rounds to hit me.

Jim1954 · Post by **Jim1954** » Fri May 30, 2003 12:17 am

Bob, I guess I am trying to put myself on the ground in the A0's position. Unless I can reasonably expect to recieve info from an outside source, how can I expect to see smoke plumes 3km away, behind hills and trees, when the vis isn't half of that and I'm hugging the bottom of my foxhole? (Well better tactics may fix that last part eventually). Somehow, it just doesn't seem right.

JMHO, anyway.

rbrunsman · Post by **rbrunsman** » Fri May 30, 2003 1:06 am

Jim, that's reasonable. As is my decision to target obvious arty parks around ammo dumps. I think it wouldn't stretch the imagination to think that Higher Command would take a keen interest in locating enemy ammo dumps and target them with counterbattery fire. After all, your own Off Board arty will counterbattery fire the opponent's Off Board Arty presumably, because they are big concentrations of arty tubes which is what a cluster of tubes around an onboard ammo dump is.

Agreed?:)

Jim1954 · Post by **Jim1954** » Fri May 30, 2003 1:24 am

All valid and good points Bob. Perhaps I may modify my stance somewhat. If I do put an arty park around an ammo source, they're all gonna have wheels and move frquently. lol

Agreed:D

rbrunsman · Post by **rbrunsman** » Fri May 30, 2003 1:56 am

I use ammo dumps, I just don't fire arty near them.

Wolfleader · Post by **Wolfleader** » Fri May 30, 2003 3:16 am

Good to very good visibility:

deploy your 88's overwatch position (elevated positions/ on top of hills) if you can at the deployment screen and mix them with machinegunners and tanks. You'll get plenty of targets to choose from. The AI usually starts at the far edge of the screen and would usually take a short while before their weapons come within range which means you can take advantage of the 88's excellent range and pick off as much of them as they close in on your position.

or you can deploy them behind the hills and wait as the enemy units clamber to the top of the hill where you can pick them off one at a time.

Poor visibility.

Use mines, the AI doesn't bother with mineclearing and will usually kamikaze straight through a line of minefields with hilarious results.

Oh and when defending always always carefully check each defending units field of fire, making sure there are no blind spots where the enemy can get units through without you knowing.

mjpatterson · Post by **mjpatterson** » Fri May 30, 2003 5:38 am

Does the morale of of sections suffer from "mixing" units of different models? In example, if I were to upgrade 2 Pz35's to PzIVD's and the other 2 remained 35's, would it make any difference on the "cohesion" of all units under that command? I can't find anything in the manual regarding this. Also, for instance, if I upgrade 1 of my infantry in my group to an AT rifle, will this benefit or hurt my chances? I know in other games that mixing of units in this way usually has some drawbacks.

Marek Tucan · Post by **Marek Tucan** » Fri May 30, 2003 1:57 pm

My favourite defense setup in SP3 (I haven't already tested it in SPWAW) was to build a compact belt of the dragon teeth with only one or two holes in it in such places the enemy passing through the holes will be easily flanked (ideal are large pieces of open terrain surrounded by hills and forests). The AI always ran its tanks here and got massacred, while my light tanks and infantry was guarding the DT line to catch enemy inf passing it without armor support. Worked well even in the meeting. But I am sure human player wouldn't be as dumb as the AI:D

Irinami · Post by **Irinami** » Sat May 31, 2003 2:35 am

Originally posted by mjpatterson
Does the morale of of sections suffer from "mixing" units of different models?

Morale? Nope. Your Koenigstiger crews don't care if they're in their KT or part of a Scout Team,though their leader's Infantry rating will be relatively abyssmal. They'll be happy as punch, though.

Problem is, though, their experience will suffer. They have to learn a new manual of arms and new equipment. This can be just a few points or near to a dozen, depending on several factors I can't ever seem to find.

mjpatterson · Post by **mjpatterson** » Sat May 31, 2003 6:40 am

Just so I'm sure about this: If my original purchased "tank" crews are upgraded to better tanks but stay in the same unit class (tank) everything will work fine? And secondly, if my "tank" crew gets mixed equipment (a tank, a recon, inf, etc) then their experience suffers?

Thanks for the help men!

Jim1954 · Post by **Jim1954** » Sat May 31, 2003 7:05 am

This thread has a lot of info in it about upgrading and the pros and cons of it. I think it might clarify things somewhat.

showthread.php?s=&threadid=37795

Irinami · Post by **Irinami** » Mon Jun 02, 2003 6:30 am

Originally posted by mjpatterson
Just so I'm sure about this: If my original purchased "tank" crews are upgraded to better tanks but stay in the same unit class (tank) everything will work fine? And secondly, if my "tank" crew gets mixed equipment (a tank, a recon, inf, etc) then their experience suffers?

Thanks for the help men!

No, quite the opposite.

If your original purchased anything crew is upgraded to better (or worse, for that matter) anything, their experience will suffer, regardless of what their Platoon-mates are equipped with.

In addition to the loss of experience accompanying any upgrade (even an upgrade back to equipment they have used before), if they move from one class to another (that is, Armor to Infantry, or Infantry to Artillery, or Artillery to Armor, etc. etc. etc.), then their commander will have to use the rating of a secondary skill. EG... Your SdKfz-221 captain has 42 Infantry, 76 Armor, and 31 Artillery, then if you change him to a Recon Team, he will have a rating of 42 in the relevant skill (Infantry)... whereas if you upgraded him to an 88, he'd use his even more abyssmal Artillery skill (31)... but if you changed him to a Tiger, he'd use his decent Armor skill still (which is 76).

But again, this is regardless of what his Platoon-mates have. If you only upgrade S3 from an armoured car to a Recon squad, it won't change any of the other units in S-Platoon.

Defensive setup

Defensive setup

Defense in SPWAW...

Upgrades

Re: Upgrades