Respectfully request Allied players abstain from viewing AAR.

[AllenK]

Herr Chancellor,

Okay, my naval aviation or navy will have to interdict a move by Wavell to France. I'm not sure of my air availability at the moment but should a decent land bomber be available and in range of Wavell, I could try a ground-strike on DoW to hold him for at least one turn.

Some additional thoughts on USSR. With the Siberian garrison stripped to pursue this Persian gambit, it might not be too difficult to get a 2:1 ratio in 1940. Have to see how things are in China though.

Your offer of resources is most generous.

[AllenK]

Herr Chancellor,

In line with discussions, the mighty legions of Italy are now configured along the borders of France and Tunisia waiting for an opportune moment to strike.

El Duce Supremo.

[AllenK]

Well it looks as though Wavell has been stacked with a transport to make a run to France. If CW do it on impulse 2 we won't stop it but if they are not to leave a transport exposed it would have to go into port and take up one of the two FTC slots.

I can't imagine CW leaving Wavell at sea, so to unload him without taking up a slot would mean a combined move. That would limit naval moves elsewhere. If I get the chance of a surprise move shot at a transport I'll take it.

[Centuur]

Do I get it straight (haven't looked at the Allied setup), that the USSR hasn't set up any of their Siberian units on the Manchurian border? Is Comrad Stalin so confident?

Mr. Tojo should set up the Japanese in Manchuria into attack positions around Vlad. Put one unit in West Manchuria to grab the resource and one to cut the railroad. Than the USSR should set up it's reserves and the game starts in earnest. High risk, high gain. Use Yamamoto and his marines to go to Persia (sail them out to sea in a positions where they might be able to reach Persia during the RTB phase. Oil is everything and Persia has got three of those...

Of course, that means that Il Duce and the Führer should go for a "Kitchen sink" type of Barbarossa in 1941. High risk, high gain...

[AllenK]

Hi Centuur,

Prior to set-up we had a House Rule Neutrality pact betweeen USSR and Japan. Basically playing the normal rules but without markers so based upon Garrison ratios. Two of the three Inf that start in Siberia are in Persia, the other one is in Vlad. No attack in 39 and needs 2:1 in 40 for Japan to DoW.

[Mayhemizer_slith]

I forgot in set up to place one Bf109 to Poland [8D] Bf110 is there to give ground support.

Looks like Polish planes are going to escape, so no harm done.

[AlbertN]

I see you play with the Internment Rule. A heavy pro-Allied rule - handing to UK a healthy amount of pilots early on in the war pratically.

[AllenK]

ORIGINAL: Cohen

I see you play with the Internment Rule. A heavy pro-Allied rule - handing to UK a healthy amount of pilots early on in the war pratically.

No problem with that. I think it's the game's way of simulating (and paying tribute to) all the various Polish, Czech, French, Belgium, Dutch (apologies for any omissions) pilots who made their way to the UK and continued the fight despite their countries being overrun by the Nazis. I think it a dishonour not to allow the rule.

[brian brian]

Food in Flames though, was very generous by the Bad Guys side.

[AlbertN]

Just a different opinion. By how I see it it's the 100% of the air personnel of Poland, etc etc, going to just be purposefully migrated to UK instead of fighting for its own country. But that's how I perceive it.

[AllenK]

To: Herr Chancellor,

From: The Divine Emperor

Reports from my diplomatic people suggest the pre-war intelligence assessments of the Polish army dispositions may have been subject to a degree of inaccuracy. There is talk of logistical breakdowns and troops being ordered into battle without the requisite supplies being available. How are we to address this unfortunate turn of events?

From: El Duce Supremo

Whadda mistake'a to make.

[AllenK]

A synopsis of discussions so far.

A fair number have been played out already in Poland and China.

The Japs were seriously considering sending troops to Persia and The Divine Emperor initially sketched out that deployment. The plan broke down because the CP chain couldn't reach into the Persian Gulf. I think it might have needed the Italians to put one of their CP's there (assuming the game would both allow the Italian placement and for it to be used by the Japs). However that was a moot point because they didn't and it was too late by Japanese set-up.

It was only after the Jap set-up was done (and the CP chain re-located) that Centuur-san contributed his ideas. To make it work (I think and correct me if I'm wrong) would have needed Yamamoto, an Inf/Mar plus a CP to sail as far as possible towards Persia. Somewhere around the Bay of Bengal/Arabian Sea. They would sit there awaiting the USSR DoW on Persia, which would then be aligned with Japan. They would then sail into Bandar Shapur. Yamamoto would reorg the Trans and CP.

Next impulse, the CP sails to the Gulf to establish the supply link and send an oil back to Japan. The Mar/Inf moves onto the oil hex to the NW and they sit there awaiting developments. USSR would lose the oil unless it left Persia unconquered while destroying with the Peacekeepers. This would all take time and the Soviet forces would be tied down a long way from home.

Tempting and could still have been put into action but it would make things more difficult in China due to the abstraction and the set-up assuming Yamamoto was initially going to China. Had Germany been aiming for Fall Gelb and an early Barbarossa we might have tried it but German ambitions are focussed elsewhere.

[brian brian]

Japan would have had to DOW USSR to stay in Persia after conquest. As the Axis I would never give the Russians a Pact with Japan. The Persian oil is too valuable and too easy for Japan to get.

[brian brian]

Oh and the Japanese Battle Cruisers can sail divisions straight into Persian ports, useful if the Russians already have Paras.

Otherwise the way to do is to re-org some CP in Italian East Africa using a TRS on a naval impulse.

[Centuur]

ORIGINAL: brian brian

Japan would have had to DOW USSR to stay in Persia after conquest. As the Axis I would never give the Russians a Pact with Japan. The Persian oil is too valuable and too easy for Japan to get.

That's the point isn't it? With a Japanese-Soviet neutrality pact in place, the USSR has his hands free in Persia and the Japanese are free to go all out in China and only have to maintain a garrison in Manchuria and Korea consisting of the TERR of those countries. Don't fall into the deadly trap of not having a garrison at the border, because the USSR might start thinking big if you don't.

Apart from this, it's no use to send Yamamoto to Persia as a peacekeeper when you have a neutrality pact with the USSR. That's to say: what's the closest Japanese controlled hex where Yamamoto and their units will get "teleported" too? Is that at the Chinese frontline? If so, why not put them into Persia so they will get into a nice position in China anyway? That might be faster than moving them through China itself. Gamey, but it's the rules...

[AllenK]

All, I appreciate all the advice and ideas on this.

Ultimately, I wanted the Japanese to be free of Soviet intervention in China and Manchuria. Making a beeline for Persia was very tempting but I couldn't quite see how to make it work when I did the set up and am not that confident how I would have managed in China with the abstraction of forces to Persia.

However, this is all being stored away for potential use in future games.

[brian brian]

Japan is stronger than you think, esp. if they focus on Infantry gearing early.

The usual winner of a Japan/Russia war is ... Germany.

If the Russians go into Persia I send in the Japanese every time and there is little the Russians can do unless they go historical and jointly invade with the CW.

(But then we extend Attack Weakness to the ChiCommms as well. I think China is ridiculously freed from their historical outlook, in the game, though no one usually cares.)

But on the new map and with unlimited Russian cavalry divisions, Japan needs a Pact with Russia by 1942 at the latest, for their long-term interest. Axis interest is different and an early Japan/USSR war should help the overall cause a fair bit but still with the possibility of ending it on-time. A Russia under extreme pressure in the mid-game should be willing to deal.

So good Russian play, IMO, is to leave a few GARR in Khabarovsk and Blagovyeschensk and ignore the Japanese until they are safe from Adolf.

[Centuur]

It depends totally on how the war in China is going, if the USSR can ignore the Japanese.

Sure, I agree that the USSR should not start a war against the Japanese if China isn't in danger of being conquered, but it is wise for the USSR to keep at least some fast units in Siberia to make sure the Japanese has to keep some units in Manchuria to prevent the USSR to do nasty things. If the Japanese are foolish enough not to keep some units in that area, a Soviet HQ with 2 fast Siberians and a couple of CAV can do a lot of damage.

The USSR shouldn't allow the Japanese a free walk into China with the unified map, not even with a neutrality pact in place. You have got at least 1,5 year before Adolf is ready for a Barbarossa, so use that year wisely and keep the Japanese thinking about a possible Soviet invasion. Will it come? Not if there are GAR sitting across the border. If so Tojo goes all out in China. That isn't good Russian play, IMO.

I never have Soviet GAR in Siberia. Those are very cheap loss takers in hero cities in the west.

I believe good Russian play is to set up the majority of the Siberians in the Far East and to have Zhukov and another Siberian at the Persian border. After demanding Bessarabia, I tend to move some units from that area, together with long range bombers to the Persian border and start things up there. Now: what's Yamamoto going to do? Wait until the USSR attacks Persia? Or enter China? That's the big question for the Japanese and that's the question the USSR should force the Japanese to answer. And with a small army in Siberia, the Japanese has a tough choice to make...

[brian brian]

A lot depends on how well the Chinese are played though. I don't think they are in much danger of they are played properly - defend in stacks, retreat _before_ Japan can get good odds, pick the Blitz table unless surrounded, keep HQs from Japanese contact - but most players play them poorly and make it too easy for the Japanese to gobble them up, always hoping Japan rolls a 14 on the Assault table while their units sit still on the front lines.

But Japan holds the strategic initiative and can always pivot to fight the USSR quickly on their interior lines while keeping the Chinese pinned down (though that won't last as long on the new ooze-friendly map). Their long-range planes can be quite handy too. Japan can leave their Manchurian units in the for e pool and build them instantly when a need is detected. In my opinion, the odds the USSR can come out with any gains for itself in 1940 are low. They will lose a factory for sure, and take casualties. If they are still fighting when the Germans attack, they can't extricate their forces in Siberia very well while they extricate their European factories. (Edit: and here too the Russians are usually played poorly, fighting on too long with too much force, as a gamer playing a game with nothing else to do at the time is making the decisions).

All that is predicated on the possibility of a 1941 Barbarossa, which is extremely serious. If that is off the table, it is Japan that should garrison Manchuria strongly and possibly negotiate for a Pact, or just brace for impact.

[Centuur]

All true. But that still doesn't mean that the Soviets should neglect the Japanese by having only GAR in Siberia. That's giving Tojo the go ahead in China. If the Japanese throw everything they have at the Chinese, the Chinese might get in trouble (or not, depending on the dice). A small fast Soviet army makes sure they don't. IMHO GAR are not good units to use in an offense. So I rather have two Siberians, a HQ INF and a couple of CAV present in Siberia. Those GAR should be in hero cities in the west, not doing nothing in Siberia.

GAR are only good for one thing: delaying the German advance and be slaughtered a couple of times when doing so...