The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

[Canoerebel]

Scratch that. New guess. With John seeing the host of Allied shipping around Tarawa, perhaps he thinks that's the more dangerous vector of retreat for Mini KB. No I'm thinking he sprints north, maybe even at flank speed. And maybe even sends Steroid KB east at flank speed (probably not, just "maybe."). So my carriers will look to intercept on ENE course.

[Lowpe]

Task forces slowing down to let others catch up should be listed in the ops report. At least they do, when they slow down for a merge.

[Miller]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

ORIGINAL: Miller

Weird behaviour by John. The only logic I could think of in his mini KB movement would be to draw your CVs away and leave the way clear for the main KB to steam in among your transports, but its position is pretty far away even to make that a possibility at full speed.

In this mod are the Allies still limited to a max strike range of 7 hexes for CV a/c?

What's this? Is this a feature I'm not familiar with? My carriers are mostly carrying Hellcats, Helldivers, and SBD5s. I've set all of these to range 10 (with drop tanks). Is there some feature that restricts maximum range to 7 (or were you just thinking I still had SBD3s, etc.)?

Yes I'm pretty sure the Allies are limited to 7 hexes and the IJN 8. However I don't think this applies to port or airfield strikes. Can anyone else confirm this?

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Miller

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

ORIGINAL: Miller

Weird behaviour by John. The only logic I could think of in his mini KB movement would be to draw your CVs away and leave the way clear for the main KB to steam in among your transports, but its position is pretty far away even to make that a possibility at full speed.

In this mod are the Allies still limited to a max strike range of 7 hexes for CV a/c?

What's this? Is this a feature I'm not familiar with? My carriers are mostly carrying Hellcats, Helldivers, and SBD5s. I've set all of these to range 10 (with drop tanks). Is there some feature that restricts maximum range to 7 (or were you just thinking I still had SBD3s, etc.)?

Yes I'm pretty sure the Allies are limited to 7 hexes and the IJN 8. However I don't think this applies to port or airfield strikes. Can anyone else confirm this?

tm.asp?m=2519074

Second post from Michael

Also read post #10. Very important.

Don't ask me why I have this thread bookmarked.

[Lowpe]

I have been attacked at greater ranges than 7 by American CVs in 1944 against ships. I detailed them in my AAR vs Tiemanj.

I have heard that there is a sliding scale for what year, or experience, or just die rolls that allow US strikes past 7 hexes. And we seem to have confirmation that morale & experience might be the deciding factor.

I have suffered port strikes and sweeps at 10 hexes, too.

Nothing is certain, but there does seem to be merit that that Allies are limited to 7 hexes, especially in 1942. 1943 and beyond is anyone's guess.

[Canoerebel]

Thanks, Moose, for a timely assist.

This makes it nearly impossible to intercept an enemy that doesn't wish to be intercepted in open ocean when said enemy TF starts a turn at 18 hexes distant and has about 200 degree of arc to choose from for travel.

Realistically, John has two vectors to choose from: due north or due south. To close within range, I have to use Flank Speed. I don't think it's worth it, do you? Fuel consumption and wear and tear on the off chance of a strike. I feel like I'd be trying to pull an inside straight. If it was just my carriers that would be fine. But I have a fleet to worry about too.

I think I'll scrub, dadgum it, and stay on mission.

Thanks, Moose, for screwing up the drama (thank you, Moose, for helping).

[Miller]

I think you might be making the right decision to be honest. If John has any inkling as to where your CVs are he has to retreat south with the mini KB or risk having it destroyed.

[Mike McCreery]

I have always had trouble with TF's following ASW TF's.

I thought it might be related to the ASW burning up ops points actively searching for subs.

[Canoerebel]

I've had no problems with the carriers following properly during the game and during this op until this turn. I hope it was an anomaly.

[KenchiSulla]

I've had issues with following other TFs before but mostly because of refueling.. When you want to be 100% sure of reaction, set the TFs to remain on station and manually select the hex you want them to end up in... the method has never failed me...

[Bearcat2]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

ORIGINAL: Miller

Weird behaviour by John. The only logic I could think of in his mini KB movement would be to draw your CVs away and leave the way clear for the main KB to steam in among your transports, but its position is pretty far away even to make that a possibility at full speed.

In this mod are the Allies still limited to a max strike range of 7 hexes for CV a/c?

What's this? Is this a feature I'm not familiar with? My carriers are mostly carrying Hellcats, Helldivers, and SBD5s. I've set all of these to range 10 (with drop tanks). Is there some feature that restricts maximum range to 7 (or were you just thinking I still had SBD3s, etc.)?

"1. There is code that limits the strike range to that flown in 6 hours (based on cruise speed).
2. Limits carrier launched strikes to 7 and 8 respectively for Allied and Japanese. "


"Good experience and morale can push the group's max range out a random one or two hex for an attack.
This means that sometimes an attack will take place slightly outside the expected range of the aircraft. "

[Mike McCreery]

What happened to Termite1?

Just curious ;]

[Bearcat2]

ORIGINAL: Wargmr

What happened to Termite1?

Just curious ;]

Not sure, at this point, do not even remember who was in that tank.

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: Miller

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

ORIGINAL: Miller

Weird behaviour by John. The only logic I could think of in his mini KB movement would be to draw your CVs away and leave the way clear for the main KB to steam in among your transports, but its position is pretty far away even to make that a possibility at full speed.

In this mod are the Allies still limited to a max strike range of 7 hexes for CV a/c?

What's this? Is this a feature I'm not familiar with? My carriers are mostly carrying Hellcats, Helldivers, and SBD5s. I've set all of these to range 10 (with drop tanks). Is there some feature that restricts maximum range to 7 (or were you just thinking I still had SBD3s, etc.)?

Yes I'm pretty sure the Allies are limited to 7 hexes and the IJN 8. However I don't think this applies to port or airfield strikes. Can anyone else confirm this?

You are correct, this is for naval attacks only but is hard coded into the game and I doubt any mod would be able to modify it. Always has been this way. I read Michael's post about experience but have never witnessed my American carrier aircraft extend beyond seven hexes. Does not mean it is not the case but I have yet to see it.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: KenchiSulla

I've had issues with following other TFs before but mostly because of refueling.. When you want to be 100% sure of reaction, set the TFs to remain on station and manually select the hex you want them to end up in... the method has never failed me...

I have often had problems with "TF C following TF B following TF A" setup. If I set all the TFs to follow the lead one instead of daisy-chaining, there is nary a problem. Watching fuel states is still necessary.

Sending TFs to the same destination hex (determined by the slowest TF and fuel states) is the surest fix.

[JohnDillworth]

And I'm posting so much that you guys have every right to skim, bow out, avoid, offer off-the-seat suggestions, etc. It's my job to know when suggestions are coming from informed readers and when they're coming from those skimming or just checking in for the first time. But it's hard to know, sometimes.

no critique intended and I would never offer suggestions. I read the opposition AAR form time to time so I only make observations. let me rephrase. Right now it looks like 2 Sumos going through the per-contact rituals. Grunting, stretching, throwing salt, squatting in those diapers (sorry for that visual) invocations being offered on both sides of the ring. maybe there will be contact or maybe we go to a commercial but if and when the giants meat it will be explosive

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: KenchiSulla

I've had issues with following other TFs before but mostly because of refueling.. When you want to be 100% sure of reaction, set the TFs to remain on station and manually select the hex you want them to end up in... the method has never failed me...

+1

This is the most reliable in my opinion. I've also had success using single hex patrol points assigned to each TF. This is better though for combat TFs that you want to react.

ORIGINAL: michaelm

Good experience and morale can push the group's max range out a random one or two hex for an attack.
This means that sometimes an attack will take place slightly outside the expected range of the aircraft.

Thanks for linking Bull. I'd not seen this post before.

I assume this means the IJN could go farther than 8 hexes then too if conditions were right. Never seen either myself though.

[JeffroK]

My thought on Mini KB.

He has incoming BB force, assumes CR will evacuate so Mini KB will be in place to take on evacuees.

[Encircled]

And I'm posting so much that you guys have every right to skim, bow out, avoid, offer off-the-seat suggestions, etc. It's my job to know when suggestions are coming from informed readers and when they're coming from those skimming or just checking in for the first time. But it's hard to know, sometimes.

Bungling amatuer here!

[Canoerebel]

Lots of good insights and suggestions. I like the way I configure TFs to follow, but I'm going to monitor this carefully and make adjustments if needed.

JeffK, I think you could be right. It does bear a resemblence to hammer and anvil. And yet, isn't it remarkably reckless to have Mini KB doin the Jeb Stuart thing? I really wish I could make him pay, but I was getting myself twisted in knots and dispersing my assets all over the place. I definitely believe standing down and resuming the main missions was the right decision.

I recall the 7 vs. 8 hexes thing - I remember following an epic AAR in which an IJ player used that to perfection to throttle an Allied player. But over the years of departure, my memory had worn fuzzy. Until Miller mentioned it today, and until Moose elucidated and provided additional resources, my fuzzy memory was that the 7/8 hex thing was the difference in range between Allied divebombers and Kates carrying torps. So I had things all messed up. I owe Moose a beverage of his choice (and Miller too, but he'll try to drag me into a conversation about Lady Gaga's wonders).

The mad rush of posts last night and today truly reflect my mental state as I was dealing with what are, for me, unprecedented circumstances. John's leaving town tomorrow for three days. I think I can use some down time to gather my wits.

But I hope we get in three or four more turns before he leaves. I hope, that is, as long as my carrier TFs obey orders and as long as you gents are here to provide the details that make the difference between calamity and something other than calamity.