Spruance became insane

[AmiralLaurent]

First my plan,

it's mid July 1942 scen 17, IJN has a fleet with 5 CV and 1 CVL escorted by BBs and so on, while USN has 3 fully operationnal CV and no BB.
But IJN has lost a lost of Marus and 5-6 TK/AO.

A IJN fleet comes to PM to bring supplies or to bring back troops that have taken the base. All the CV and BB are off Townsville to cover that move and sink what they find (only one lonely AP returning from GG).

As I can't attack this super TF with what I have, I sent my CV N of Solomons to try to catch convoys between Truk and Rabaul/Shortlands. If a plane saw me early, at least the IJN CV will sail north and I will have a chance to do something in the Coral Sea.

A Mavis saw me but as IJN CV has sailed south to bomb Townsville the same day, I decided to continue towards Shortlands (where coastwatchers saw 4 TK).

Next day, I saw no ships around this base. IJN CV were sailing full speed back to Solomons but were still south of Rossel. So I give order for my CV to sail to NE Nevea, the idea being then to sail E of Luganville, where I had enough planes to accept a battle with the Japanese CV in my waters if they pursue me so far.

Next day, my 3 CV were sunk. Spruance decided he has enough of sea time and sailed directly towards Noumea, despite having enough fuel to remain one more week there, to be on patrol/no retire, no react to enemy and to have a destination to go.
My CV ended at some hexes S of Guadalcanal and some hexes of the IJN CVs. The only good news of the day was that it was so stupid a move that my opponent was totally surprised and has CAP at 10 or 20%. And all my planes stroke first so he should really have wondered what happened for some minutes. Not long, sadly for USN.
Result 4 IJN CV with some damage (no more than 1 torpedo and some bombs each, so none will sink) against 3 CV sunk. I lost all my planes and crew while IJN lost 50-70 planes.

S... happens.

Is it a known bug or not ? Or did I something wrong ?

I would like to be sure that if the resulting battle had been in my favor, I would have said there was a problem.

Continuing this game will be a real challenge.

Any comments ?

[Drex]

We all know the reasoning behind the "reaction" move but it seems to be out of control and can over-ride the "no react" especially with a highly rated admiral like Spruance. It has happened to me many times so the only way I can prevent this is to lead all my CV TFs with a covering force. The CVs will not react if they are following a TF. Maybe some else knows another way. Other than that I don't believe you did anything wrong.

[Drongo]

Posted by AmiralLaurent

Next day, my 3 CV were sunk. Spruance decided he has enough of sea time and sailed directly towards Noumea, despite having enough fuel to remain one more week there, to be on patrol/no retire, no react to enemy and to have a destination to go.

Unless I misunderstood the above, it doesn't sound like a reaction move from your description but rather that it was a regular move by the USN TF that had decided (on its own) to head for Noumea. I've seen that happen from time to time when some of the ships are getting low on fuel (not necessarily in the red) and the destination base is very far away. This can happen despite do not retire orders.

Sometimes the TF will slow down and refuel the smaller ships from the larger while other times they turn for home without orders. Whenever possible, I'll manually order a TF to refuel at sea so that it doesn't decide to do it at an inconvenient moment or to head for home without orders.

Another thing to do to minimise the chance of a "turn for home" without orders is to keep setting your CV TF home base to the closest friendly-owned coast hex available (rather than leave it as the distant port of Noumea).

Otherwise, your idea was sound. Having Spruance in charge was a good move since you didn't want an immeadiate engagement and he is one of the less aggressive USN leaders (lower chance of a reation move).

At least you got in some hits on the bad guys.

[AmiralLaurent]

Drex

Both CV TF were at 20-25 hexes at the start of the turn and would have remained at the same distance if orders have been followed.

In this case, what happens is that they sailed at full speed one towards the other.

Thanks for the advice, anyway

A new tought : I have heard of something like that when a Tanaka-led DD TF sailed to Australia instead of going back to base and was all lost because it has not enough fuel to turn back, so the player has no other choice than attack.
Like Spruance, Tanaka has a very high rating... Wonder if these super-amirals are not able to bypass player's orders because 'they know what to do' ?

If one ship of my TF manages to reach one of my port, Spruance will be very please to discover his new flagship : a PT-boat with a 90 seagulls capacity.

Edited : Drongo posted while I was answering Drex

Drongo, thanks. I think you are right. My ships fuelled N of Luganville before sailing W and so had no immediate fuel concern but the game may have calculated that to cover the distance from NE Shortlands to Noumea, it has to sail right now back to base. He had no possibility to see that a full AO was waiting N of Nevea for it.

I should have given as home base any of the spots near Nevea and it would be OK.

And yes I choose Spruance because it's the least agressive of the good admirals, I thought I will better control my CV.

OK, if Spruance is so concerned with fuel, I will better give him an AO with a 90 000 seagull capacity. If they all drop their 'bombs' together, the load may be enough to sink a PC. Or maybe I will try to train them to carry spud miracle weapons.

[Drongo]

Posted by AmiralLaurent

In this case, what happens is that they sailed at full speed one towards the other.

Now that sounds like a reaction move.

If one ship of my TF manages to reach one of my port, Spruance will be very please to discover his new flagship : a PT-boat with a 90 seagulls capacity.

Most appropriate.

[AmiralLaurent]

Now that sounds like a reaction move.

No, there was no message like 'TF reacting' except for the japanese side (one hex).

I did the math and found that my TF was exactly on the path between its current position and Noumea. Had it reacted towards the IJN fleet it would have been further W.

And I have never seen a TF react against another that is outside plane range.

See my edited post above.

Regards

[Drex]

I agree with what Drongo says but I still think the CV following a covering force will help eliminate reaction moves. I don't know if it eliminates moves to the home base for fuel, but often I have my CV and covering force follow a replenishment TF if I'm not in a hurry. This keeps the replenishment TF with the combat ships until they get to an intermediate destination.

[denisonh]

Laurent,

As the IJN player, my replay showed a message of a USN reaction, as my TF did not react. It may have been a combination of both a move to Noumea and a reaction.

And I usually have a surface TF with my CVs, and I have them follow the surface TF when I do not want a reaction move. IT works fine.

[denisonh]

And as far north as you were, it is a possibility that you ran low on fuel, the AI Admiral automatically reset to retirement allowed, while at the same time returning the "do not react" to the default setting which is "react to enemy".

(Just watch a TF's order when you hit the "return to Noumea button". The destination changes and so do the orders to retirement allowed and react to enemy)

That is a very real possibility.

[AmiralLaurent]

Never tought before you and Denisonh were the same person, I knew you under your BTR nickname.

If you're OK with it, the war continues. Even if I will not send next turn until sunday, being away from my puter (and not playing at work, just surfing forums).

I was too far north certainly, even if I had spend two turns refueling NE of Nevea waiting for your CV to go farther south or towards PM.

Each disaster teachs something.

Regards

[denisonh]

Originally posted by AmiralLaurent
Never tought before you and Denisonh were the same person, I knew you under your BTR nickname.

If you're OK with it, the war continues. Even if I will not send next turn until sunday, being away from my puter (and not playing at work, just surfing forums).

I was too far north certainly, even if I had spend two turns refueling NE of Nevea waiting for your CV to go farther south or towards PM.

Each disaster teachs something.

Regards

Ahhh, I would go by "Joe Tentpeg", but it was no available when I signed up (I think I had signed up before but forgotten my passsword:rolleyes: ).

When I get home, I will resend the turn. I curious as to why this event happened, and would like to confirm that is indeed what happened.

And as far as wanting to continue, the USN can always come back although it will be tough. I am in the same position as you in another PBEM game as the Allied, down 4 carriers with my opponent only down one.