Minor question about Battlecruisers

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: geofflambert




Haven't read this article yet, but if you're saying anything about POW's firepower, you are entirely missing the point.
POW could draw fire as well as any BB and could take the consequences as well or better than any other BB. Hood would be left to conduct target practice. Bismark was less well equipped to take her 15" shells than POW was equipped to take 16" shells.

warspite1

What? [&:] 16-inch shells???

I wasn't saying Bismark had 16" shells, merely that if POW and her class had to face ships like that they were about as well prepared as could be, within reason.

warspite1

Right. I am going off to tour the grounds and shoot some peasants while I'm about it.

[geofflambert]

edit: I'm betting the relevant party had a chance to see my post and that's good enough for me. I don't understand the relevant party's last post but I like the guy as long as I've seen him on this forum.

His behavior will never dissuade me from liking him and I don't care if he likes that or not. Suck eggs, relevant party! [:'(]

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: geofflambert




Haven't read this article yet, but if you're saying anything about POW's firepower, you are entirely missing the point.
POW could draw fire as well as any BB and could take the consequences as well or better than any other BB. Hood would be left to conduct target practice. Bismark was less well equipped to take her 15" shells than POW was equipped to take 16" shells.

warspite1

What? [&:] 16-inch shells???

I wasn't saying Bismark had 16" shells, merely that if POW and her class had to face ships like that they were about as well prepared as could be, within reason.

Hood was not prepared to receive such fire because it was designed and built under the BC concept (which I consider to be not very bright) but had not bee up armoured to WWII standards entirely when the Battle of Denmark Straits occurred.

warspite1

As I said previously - its very bright, if used as designed (and the Battle of the Falkland Islands showed what they were designed for). If however they are used otherwise then.......

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

You have peasants?

warspite1

[&:]

What are you on about you silly little Gorn? Of course we have peasants - this is England, what. Every Englishman's home is his castle, green fields. the wonderful sound of ball on willow, summer fetes, cucumber sandwiches, the empire on which the sun never sets etc etc

[Walks off mumbling while shaking his head] strange fellow.... ahh Geeves bring me another cup of tea what, and then prepare my hunting rifle. I love the smell of gunpowder in the morning......

[geofflambert]

I just wanted to make sure that you (warspite1) did not think I was calling you a relevant party. [:D] Actually you are. Proceed as usual.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

I just wanted to make sure that you (warspite1) did not think I was calling you a relevant party. [:D] Actually you are. Proceed as usual.

warspite1

I saw the mention of you know who and ignored it as the thread will just get locked - glad you moved it. Can't say I understand what is happening at present - but I have a fair idea where it will end

[Orm]

Right. I am completely lost. [&:] As usual. [:D]

How about we get back to discussing battle cruisers?

[geofflambert]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

You have peasants?

warspite1

[&:]

What are you on about you silly little Gorn? Of course we have peasants - this is England, what. Every Englishman's home is his castle, green fields. the wonderful sound of ball on willow, summer fetes, cucumber sandwiches, the empire on which the sun never sets etc etc

[Walks off mumbling while shaking his head] strange fellow.... ahh Geeves bring me another cup of tea what, and then prepare my hunting rifle. I love the smell of gunpowder in the morning......

We are certainly kindred souls, but I find the bouquet of a roasted serf to be superior to any roasted peasant I have encountered.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Orm

Right. I am completely lost. [&:] As usual. [:D]

How about we get back to discussing battle cruisers?

warspite1

Battlecruisers? Easy

- Good idea
- Not used as designed
- Problems (probably imo) compounded by poor ammo and cordite handling
- The class got a bad rap as a result to mask deficiences and mistakes elsewhere
- Continued in the next war to be used in the wrong way
- More problems as a result
- Hence lots of debate about them now (particularly with the 100th anniversary of Jutland coming up)

[geofflambert]

ORIGINAL: Orm

Right. I am completely lost. [&:] As usual. [:D]

How about we get back to discussing battle cruisers?

I'm sorry. What's better to roast a peasant or serf but the barbette of a battlecruiser? I await your reply. Did I mention the ambience?

[Orm]

So why is it that the Admiralty didn't have any other battleships ready, and in a position, to intercept Bismarck? Despite the, fairly early, warning?

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

ORIGINAL: Orm

Right. I am completely lost. [&:] As usual. [:D]

How about we get back to discussing battle cruisers?

I'm sorry. *censored* I await your reply. Did I mention the ambience?

I understand that this is a joke. But it might be a little to much for those who actually had relatives lost in those battles.

[geofflambert]

POW and Hood were considered state of the art, and not without reason. Nelson and Rodney were clearly inferior (in my view, too slow) and no one thought what did happen had much of a chance of actually happening.
It was a shock to everyone, not excluding the Kriegsmarine.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Orm

So why is it that the Admiralty didn't have any other battleships ready, and in a position, to intercept Bismarck? Despite the, fairly early, warning?

warspite1

How many battleships did we have!!!???

Off the top of my head we had (and their status):

Nelson (undergoing repair?)
Rodney
Neither of which had the speed to make them any use in a game of catch the German while breaking out into the Atlantic

Repulse (on convoy duty)
Warspite (on convoy duty)

4 x R-class (speed issues as per the Nelson's (but even worse) and these old tarts were kept out of the way for their own safety and put on convoy escort role after their dismal performance in the Med)

That leaves

PoW
Hood
That took part in the Denmark Strait

KGV (and Rodney) that took part in the desperate chase

Renown (with Force H and escorted Ark Royal on her critical attack on Bismarck that sealed her fate)

Malaya
Barham
Valiant
Queen Elizabeth
I believe all were in the Mediterranean (Malaya may have been on convoy duty in the South Atlantic?)

The RN were stretched to breaking point.

[geofflambert]

ORIGINAL: Orm

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

ORIGINAL: Orm

Right. I am completely lost. [&:] As usual. [:D]

How about we get back to discussing battle cruisers?

I'm sorry. *censored* I await your reply. Did I mention the ambience?

I understand that this is a joke. But it might be a little to much for those who actually had relatives lost in those battles.

I apologize. For some reason I do not comprehend, I mistook your post as one from the "relevant party". We were having a bit of fun with each other and I didn't realize you had posted (which is the way things work) and your posts have always been and will always be welcome to me.
I request your forgiveness.

[Rising-Sun]

Well you can reduce some armor to get more speed, usually they have twelve inches guns with vary configuration. Anything below a cruiser line, should be fine, as long it has experience crews and good fire controls. That why the Germany wanted a fast pocket battleship to take on Allies shipping lanes. But no match for larger ships as well carrier borne aircrafts.

They aint much help without screen of escorts though. Those destroyers can reach up to 36+ knots and flank on the battlecruiser, if she can score some good hits on that fast destroyers. Too many would put her in a very difficult position.

Now I am not sure if a battlecruiser back in those days could reach high speed, normally it would be around 33 knots. But they have to do a lot of research on propulsion system. Anything is possible though.

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Orm

So why is it that the Admiralty didn't have any other battleships ready, and in a position, to intercept Bismarck? Despite the, fairly early, warning?

warspite1

How many battleships did we have!!!???

Off the top of my head we had (and their status):

Nelson (undergoing repair?)
Rodney
Neither of which had the speed to make them any use in a game of catch the German while breaking out into the Atlantic

Repulse (on convoy duty)
Warspite (on convoy duty)

4 x R-class (speed issues as per the Nelson's (but even worse) and these old tarts were kept out of the way for their own safety and put on convoy escort role after their dismal performance in the Med)

That leaves

PoW
Hood
That took part in the Denmark Strait

KGV (and Rodney) that took part in the desperate chase

Renown (with Force H and escorted Ark Royal on her critical attack on Bismarck that sealed her fate)

Malaya
Barham
Valiant
Queen Elizabeth
I believe all were in the Mediterranean (Malaya may have been on convoy duty in the South Atlantic?)

The RN were stretched to breaking point.

My point with the question was the "why" part. That RN had lot to do is not disputed.

Why was it that HMS Repulse and HMS Warspite was on convoy duty when there was a risk for breakout by Bismarck? Would not HMS Hood been a better choice for convoy escort? Why didn't the entire Home Fleet leave port?

[geofflambert]

In response to the personage formerly known as "the relevant party", I agree entirely. An aircraft carrier, even a pathetic British one, parked somewhere south of Iceland would probably have been best.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Orm

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Orm

So why is it that the Admiralty didn't have any other battleships ready, and in a position, to intercept Bismarck? Despite the, fairly early, warning?

warspite1

How many battleships did we have!!!???

Off the top of my head we had (and their status):

Nelson (undergoing repair?)
Rodney
Neither of which had the speed to make them any use in a game of catch the German while breaking out into the Atlantic

Repulse (on convoy duty)
Warspite (on convoy duty)

4 x R-class (speed issues as per the Nelson's (but even worse) and these old tarts were kept out of the way for their own safety and put on convoy escort role after their dismal performance in the Med)

That leaves

PoW
Hood
That took part in the Denmark Strait

KGV (and Rodney) that took part in the desperate chase

Renown (with Force H and escorted Ark Royal on her critical attack on Bismarck that sealed her fate)

Malaya
Barham
Valiant
Queen Elizabeth
I believe all were in the Mediterranean (Malaya may have been on convoy duty in the South Atlantic?)

The RN were stretched to breaking point.

My point with the question was the "why" part. That RN had lot to do is not disputed.

Why was it that HMS Repulse and HMS Warspite was on convoy duty when there was a risk for breakout by Bismarck? Would not HMS Hood been a better choice for convoy escort? Why didn't\t the entire Home Fleet leave port?

warspite1

One of the problems the RN ships had was range. If the entire Home Fleet leaves port and the Norfolk and Suffolk lose contact, there is a big problem. Better to send part of your force, leaving some in reserve for other eventualities.

As it turned out what difference would it have made? If sending Hood against Bismarck was sub-optimal imagine sending Repulse!

As for Warspite, she too was not fast enough if it came to a chase. Bloody handy in a fight - so long as she could get into the fight - but not much cop in a chase.

The RN were not exactly spoilt for choice. The RN achieved what they did in WWII in spite of, not because of, their equipment.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

In response to the personage formerly known as "the relevant party", I agree entirely. An aircraft carrier, even a pathetic British one, parked somewhere south of Iceland would probably have been best.

warspite1

Right, so which one - of the plethora to choose from - are you going to send? The RN did send the Victorious, the Ark Royal was drafted in from Gibraltar. The Indomitable(?) was in the Med with Eagle. Are you going to have Argus or Furious permanently stationed off Iceland? What about re-supplying Malta? What about the war in the Med?

I'm seeing a lot of glib one liners but not seeing a lot of thought here [&:]