Subsequent Fire (and other problems)

[jcrohio]

I thought I remembered machine guns that had lost rate of fire and were marked with first fire still being able
to fire again in the subsequent fire phase before this patch. Am I imagining this or could they never fire again
once rate of fir was lost?

**Edit May 14** Went back and found the following - machine guns when used by full squads are fine - they can fire
in the subsequent fire phase. It was when a MG was being used by a half squad that they cannot use subsequent fire
phase or final protective fire.

Also played a game today and had the following happen a lot - units that cowered had their MG eliminated - was not
100% but it happened a lot.

Also had the following - went in to change the AI attitude of a scenario and got the following error message:
"Sorry, Invalid Special Command Coordinates specified". All I was doing was giving a unit an "Attack" command which
does not specify a certain hex. The side I was doing this for had been issued an AI Attitude of Hold. If you want
an example go to the scenario "Pershing on the Front" and try to edit a German unit to give an AI Special Command
of Attack. This is not happening with all scenarios. Some of the ones I have created and some of the standard
scenarios work just fine.

Jack

[Paullus]

Good you found the Subsequent Fire function.

I also got the error message in the editor when issuing Attack command. I'll notify Peter.

[jcrohio]

Thanks Paullus

Any ideas then why when a MG is being used by a half squad it cannot use subsequent fire or final fire?

Also, any ideas about my other question on MGs being eliminated when a unit cowered? From my limited knowledge of
ASLSK I see no reason for a MG to be eliminated in the Defensive Fire Phase. I know it can in subsequent fire or
final fire. But these were not the case. And why almost every time when a unit cowered?

Jack

[Paullus]

It should be able to use Subsequent Fire when used by a HS. Do you have a save file?

I will have to look into the MG elimination when cowering. If you have a save file it would be helpful.

[jcrohio]

Sorry - I don't have any save games - the subsequent fire with the half squad and MG is easy to replicate
with the editor - the cowering and MG elimination did not happen consistently - I just cannot find anything
in the ASLSK rules that states that it should be happening at all given my circumstances (though I am by no
means an expert on ASLSK)

Jack

[Gerry4321]

IIRC the rules for subsequent fire when MGs are involved are very complicated. Someone created a flowchart to explain it. There may be cases where something cannot use SFF but I cannot remember.

[UP844]

The screenshot below is taken from a game of "Slamming the Door".

The firing stack (B* leader, 1x1st Line squad, 1xMMG) First Fired at a Russian squad at 7 hexes. Later in the same Movement Segment, another Russian came out of the woods (at 10 hexes) and I selected the units again and right-clicked on the target. While I was doing that, I remembered I already fired at a closer target and expected a warning message: to my surprise, the stack fired again.

Am I mistaken, or subsequent defensive fire can only be performed on targets closer than the first one?

[genesismwt]

I have noticed that subsequent first fire shots can be made at anything moving in normal range. Whether it is by design, or by progamming limitations, this is one of the many small differences between TotH and SL/ASL.

[UP844]

Neither the First Fire nor the Subsequent Fire were in normal range (as far as the squad is concerned).

This does not happen in the previous versione: if you attempted Subsequent Fire at a target not closer than the target of your First Fire, a warning message appeared. I checked both rulebooks (the current one and the old one): the range requirement is never mentioned, but I clearly remember this limitation was present.

[genesismwt]

You are correct, there is no stipulation regarding range or whether an enemy unit is at a shorter range to disqualify a Subsequent First Fire shot

I will watch this more closely. I just know that I have been hit by SFF from units that would not have been able to do so in ASL(units marked with First Fire and with an enemy unit at shorter range).

Thanks,

[jcrohio]

Someone had commented on this earlier if I remember correctly - it is working as designed according to the
developers