The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

[BBfanboy]

You need time to let your pilots rest and reload all your ships too. Replenishing air groups is gonna take a loooong time. [:(]

Re: the lonely Akagi - I bet she is out of fuel. None of the damage you did to her seems enough to have her separate like that. Your SCTFs may find other ships out of fuel too .....

I wonder if those AOs retreated toward Midway when they met with the Fletchers ... [:)]

And congrats on continuing a bloody battle and prevailing. Would have been easy to call it off in the face of all that CAP. [&o]

[Canoerebel]

My Hellcats are okay, but my strike aircraft squadrons are mostly trashed. So Death Star will move towards Wake, though it will be in a position to it Akagi if she's still moving slowly.

So, can I proceed with the Wake invasion? Yes, I think so. I'll have plenty of carriers. Ent and Hornet will retire to Pearl, but their places will be taken by newly a newly arrived CV, CVL, and three CVE.

As for aircraft, there are plenty of fighters (roughly 2/3rds to 3/4ths of the Hellcats). I think I can work out ways to get more SBDs and some TBFs to maintain a credible offensive power.

The main question is the BBs. Thus far they haven't fired their main guns in this battle. That may change tomorrow. If they do have to replenish, that will slow things down. But if I can count on four or five BBs at Wake, I'll proceed.

[Canoerebel]

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

Make sure to get some sleep tonight CR.

On whether John continues, I think he owes it to you to continue on regardless. We've all seen him enjoy clobbering his opponent in the first 1800 months of the game many times. Frankly, I'd like him to continue to really see his mettle and learn whether he's a one trick pony. I for one, will be disappointed to not get to follow your road to victory if he concedes.

Man, I need sleep. I just sent John the turn, so I think I'll sleep well tonight.

I think John will continue. I'm trying to encourage him a bit (without overdoing it). It's always better when a player fights through the hard times. It's tougher to look in the mirror when we walk away.

[Canoerebel]

Notice aircraft loss totals and ships loss totals on the eve of combat, just before the shooting begins on Sept. 19, 1943.

[Canoerebel]

Totals after three days of battle.

Allied air losses have been immense.

Japanese ship lost totals probably will rise dramatically as more cripples sink.

I think John may have lost as many as 10 DDs in this battle. That's a significant number considering what he'd already lost to this point in the game.

[poodlebrain]

In all of the night time surface engagements your radar gave you early detection of the Japanese ships. You were able to close to within maximum visibility and achieve surprise. The results of the night time engagements were kind of disappointing given your element of surprise and the ranges at which you opened fire. I guess your night fighting experience was not good enough to achieve the decisive results that were possible, or the Japanese night experience was good enough to avoid disaster. None the less, you forced the Japanese to use vital OPs that hindered their maneuverability when the air strikes came during daylight.

How serious were your pilot losses over the last few days? What condition are your squadrons in with respect to pilots? Will you be transferring pilots to fill out "ace" squadrons, or will you keep a cadre of veteran pilots in all squadrons now that you have a distinct numerical superiority in carriers?

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Gents, I think John's big remaining TF will make a clean escape. That, I think, was what he's conditioning his continuance on. He'll need to gather his thoughts and work his resolve, but he'll stick. And he'll fight hard.

Make sure to get some sleep tonight CR.

On whether John continues, I think he owes it to you to continue on regardless. We've all seen him enjoy clobbering his opponent in the first 1800 months of the game many times. Frankly, I'd like him to continue to really see his mettle and learn whether he's a one trick pony. I for one, will be disappointed to not get to follow your road to victory if he concedes.

+1

It would be sad for you not to play through the full game. To endure for so long the punishment, then have one redemptive battle, it doesn't really fill up your dark glass completely. The game at its best is about fulfilling a plan and seeing that through against an opponent who is equally determined.

It would be sad for him too. It feels bad to have this happen, to lead it to happen in this way especially, but it's a long war. There are other points of resistance he'll be able to make. I fear though that he simply doesn't enjoy the smaller, more intricate details of the game so necessary to playing the Japanese side well into the endgame. I hope due to your friendship he staggers on and finds some joy in the resistance and seeing the results of his mod into the final years.

[Encircled]

So he's lost a lot of carriers.

Not down to luck, not down to bad dice rolls, but to rubbish play on his part and good play on CRs and he's thinking of quitting?

Its a game where us JFBs enjoy the good times and the bad times, or what is the point of playing?

He owes you to keep playing to be honest

[1275psi]

If John wants consoling, he can always keep bashing me up......(bloody Banzias)
However, if he quits this game, a game where he has all the toys plus more, it will hardly
fill me with confidence for the future............

[Encircled]

If John wants consoling, he can always keep bashing me up......(bloody Banzias)
However, if he quits this game, a game where he has all the toys plus more, it will hardly
fill me with confidence for the future............

+ 1

Another mod on the way with the Japanese having Imnperial Star Destroyers?

[paullus99]

John's rashness finally caught up with him - he was sending large task forces into the unknown, with no real goal - other than to force a confrontation...which you served up to him.

It isn't your fault that his plan fell apart right from the outset. If anything, he's lucky to have escaped with anything at this point.

Since all he seems to have left is fighters, going after the cripples with surface forces makes sense - tag a few more of his ships and then get yourself ready for the next round.

You've lost nothing but expendable assets at this point (plans and a few ships), so consolidating your gains makes sense in the face of this overwhelming victory.

If he does quit, then I'd have to say that this "all or nothing" mod & attitude is just a bunch of BS on his part.

[pws1225]

I doubt John will quit. All JFBs know a crushing carrier defeat is almost inevitable especially at this stage of the war. But all the defeat does is mark the end of the offensive phase of the war for Japan and shifts the emphasis to defense. I expect that John has managed his economy well and has prepared his defenses for this phase of the war (at least I hope so). To borrow a boxing analogy, John must now shift his weight from one foot to the other to block the blows CR will throw his way. If John has prepared for this day, he is still quite capable of frustrating/delaying CR's advance well beyond Aug 15, 1945.

I don't recall a game in which John played into 1945 to know whether he plans for the endgame, but I surely hope so. These two AARs are too much to read.

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Gents, I think John's big remaining TF will make a clean escape. That, I think, was what he's conditioning his continuance on. He'll need to gather his thoughts and work his resolve, but he'll stick. And he'll fight hard.

Make sure to get some sleep tonight CR.

On whether John continues, I think he owes it to you to continue on regardless. We've all seen him enjoy clobbering his opponent in the first 1800 months of the game many times. Frankly, I'd like him to continue to really see his mettle and learn whether he's a one trick pony. I for one, will be disappointed to not get to follow your road to victory if he concedes.

Glad to see you coming around to that way of thinking.

Obvert and a few others have expressed similar sentiments.

When I took this position some time ago in the face of a rash of JFBs throwing in the towel as soon as their day in the sun ended I was taken to task for it by a large contingent of regulars.

I bit my tongue and refrained from repeating that sentiment in the interest of board harmony.

Its very pleasing to see others coming around to the viewpoint that Japanese players owe a debt to the Allied players for agreeing to "take it on the chin" for as much as two years if not longer.

Obviously I whole heartedly agree.

[Encircled]

Its very pleasing to see others coming around to the viewpoint that Japanese players owe a debt to the Allied players for agreeing to "take it on the chin" for as much as two years if not longer.

I'd take each individual game on its merits to be honest, but in this one John has had four bad days out of almost two years. He's got to play on, if only for his own forum reputation if nothing else.

[pws1225]

As a JFB, I agree with Hans but for a different reason. Playing the defense as Japan is as much fun and more challenging than playing offense during the early years. Those who quit without good cause are missing a very enjoyable part of the game.

[Bullwinkle58]

I was away from the box for a day-plus and seem to have missed a lot.

At this point it's all been said, so let me just add my own Bravo Zulu. You were meticulous in your analysis and movement planning. After I posted my warnings about a fair fight (the MKB didn't qualify in retrospect) I saw his map in his AAR and the almost exact same piece of water in yours. The difference in detection was striking. I don't know how any player with his level of experience could have had 20-ish carriers that deep in the wrong place, have zero DL on you, see a DL on himself for days, and not soil himself.

As others have said your strike coordination was simply amazing, especially considering the weather. I wish I knew how that worked so I could copy it.

It's a new game. Move on from your very gracious note. Your strategic possibility menu just changed by a lot. Prep times are prep times, but you can think bigger again.

Well done.

[HansBolter]

Been thinking about the night search issue and someone mentioned DL.

As I understand it DL is reset at the beginning of each turn and you have to re-establish it each turn.

As I also understand it DL builds up over the course of the turn with each new siting.

It makes a whole lot of sense that getting a DL established in the night phase establishes a base to build upon in the day phase.

Unless DL is reset at the beginning of each phase, which is not what I understand to be the case, starting the effort to build DL during the night phase may be a new tactic we will all be employing soon.

[SuluSea]

Congratulations CR! Very entertaining read. I figured John would lose badly if both carrier forces engaged. It's not my game but something doesn't seem right about quitting on someone after a big loss. It's late in the game for a JFB to be making offensive moves. Hopefully he soldiers on.

Best of luck (and enjoyed the hiking pics)!

[uncivil_servant]

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I'll post in detail in just a moment. First, though, I'll share here the email I just sent to John. He hasn't expressed any despair beyond what I've already mentioned, but I know this is a rough patch for him. It's hard to write him in a way that doesn't somehow convey taunting, condescension or false empathy. But I've tried to craft a genuinely encouraging note:

"Thanks in part to the many whippings you've administered in this game and over the years, I suspect I know how you feel at the moment. There have been times when I felt like my hair was on fire, when I could feel my scalp tingle. I swear there have been occasions where I could even feel my hair turning gray. It is an agonizing feeling to get embroiled in a tough battle and then to have difficulty extracting your ships. Oh yes, you have had me right there more than once.

"Thanks to lessons I've learned through matches with you (and some others), I know that it takes time to fully recover my sense of balance and determination. Usually, I try to fip turns fast so that I can rid my nostrils of any lingering stench. But sometimes it helps to breath for a spell.

"As every Alied player who has suffered at your hands can attest, the climb back out of the gloomy days brings its own rewards and senses of accomplishment. The Japanese in your hands will always be dangerous. This has been a major battle, but it's just the first of many to come. I am under no illusions that you are on the ropes. You've been stung, so you will therefore be all the more cagey and dangerous.

"I have the turn mostly done. I doubt you want it right now judging by your last email suggesting that your window for doing turns may have closed today, but send word when you're ready for it."

This reminds me of Cobb's Regiment pouring down fire on their fellow Irishmen in the Fighting 69th at Fredericksburg and then giving them a cheer afterward. [;)]

Great analogy! Loved the scene in the Movie Gods and Generals

[Canoerebel]

John has played deeply into at least one game. In our WitP game that began in 2007, the Allies invaded Hokkaido, the Kuriles and Sikhalin Island in early December 1943. We played deeply into 1944, as I recall. Most of the action was focused in NoPac, but the Allies also invaded Sumatra during 1944. And John invaded India in 1944! We finally called the game. It was a mutual decision and I don't remember exactly why. It was probably newbie thoughts on both our parts that since carriers were no longer central to the game (it was '44 and the Allies had closed on Japan proper) that the real fun was past us. We probably had other games going that struck as us more exciting. If that's what happened, we missed out on some very good stuff. I chalk that up to inexperienced stupidity on both our parts. But John did play late.