Turnaround? Lowpe (J) vs Tiemanj (A) Stock

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy




I had Indomitable too close to Japan and strikes from Vals with 250kg bombs got something like 17 hits. None penetrated, but system and fire damage were up in the sixties and there was also moderate float and engineering damage. Effects of spalling and near misses I guess.

Val drops a GP bomb doesn't it?

I am playing stock, last official release, so IIRC the bombs were GP.

In the aircraft data screen yes, it will show you "250kg GP bomb", but pay attention to what they drop when they attack:

Morning Air attack on TF, near Tulagi at 114,137

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 77 NM, estimated altitude 17,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 28 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 35
B5N2 Kate x 114
D3A1 Val x 66

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 2 damaged
D3A1 Val: 1 damaged

Allied Ships
CA Canberra
CA Australia, Bomb hits 9, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
DD Stuart, Bomb hits 4, and is sunk
CL Perth

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
13 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
2 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
25 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
16 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
16 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
5 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
21 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
5 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
23 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
5 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
3 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
1 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
1 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
8 x D3A1 Val releasing from 10000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
8 x D3A1 Val releasing from 10000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 10000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 10000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 10000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

This port is dangerous, but at least has fighters helping to protect it.

Two CL's are in pierside mode getting worked on. The AR adds a lot of repair points per turn, while the AD's and AG's make is a wonderful PB, DD, E repair facility. Quite fast.

Looks like you are running out of supply. Will the ADs and AG still do repairs without supply?

No supply needed, just be in an undamaged state. I don't know if slight damage negates their ability to add repair points or diminishes it by a percent.

[Lokasenna]

The AR must be fully repaired to contribute any points to the repair system, I believe.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

The AR must be fully repaired to contribute any points to the repair system, I believe.

Right, but my question is about the ADs and AG and whether they can just do repairs once they run out of supplies - i.e. they lost the ability to replenish ammo on the ships they serve, but can still do the repairs?

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

The AR must be fully repaired to contribute any points to the repair system, I believe.

Right, but my question is about the ADs and AG and whether they can just do repairs once they run out of supplies - i.e. they lost the ability to replenish ammo on the ships they serve, but can still do the repairs?

I believe so.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

The AR must be fully repaired to contribute any points to the repair system, I believe.

Right, but my question is about the ADs and AG and whether they can just do repairs once they run out of supplies - i.e. they lost the ability to replenish ammo on the ships they serve, but can still do the repairs?

According to Alfred, yes they can do repairs but have reduced or no resupply by their lack of supply.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

The AR must be fully repaired to contribute any points to the repair system, I believe.

Right, but my question is about the ADs and AG and whether they can just do repairs once they run out of supplies - i.e. they lost the ability to replenish ammo on the ships they serve, but can still do the repairs?

According to Alfred, yes they can do repairs but have reduced or no resupply by their lack of supply.

Unless they have supply onboard, or at the port, they cannot replenish ships. But repairs do not consume supplies.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy



Right, but my question is about the ADs and AG and whether they can just do repairs once they run out of supplies - i.e. they lost the ability to replenish ammo on the ships they serve, but can still do the repairs?

According to Alfred, yes they can do repairs but have reduced or no resupply by their lack of supply.

Unless they have supply onboard, or at the port, they cannot replenish ships. But repairs do not consume supplies.

True, but the other parallel is that if there are no supplies at a base the engineers cannot repair the base facilities nor build forts. So complete lack of supply could be a change in the capability of a support ship to fix damage. I think you are right but I was hoping someone had experience with this and could say for sure.

[Mike McCreery]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

ORIGINAL: Lowpe



According to Alfred, yes they can do repairs but have reduced or no resupply by their lack of supply.

Unless they have supply onboard, or at the port, they cannot replenish ships. But repairs do not consume supplies.

True, but the other parallel is that if there are no supplies at a base the engineers cannot repair the base facilities nor build forts. So complete lack of supply could be a change in the capability of a support ship to fix damage. I think you are right but I was hoping someone had experience with this and could say for sure.

I have forgotten more than I know about this game ;]

[Lokasenna]

Repairing base facilities costs no supplies, either. It's just building them, although even there I'm not so sure. I would have to check back. But repairing base facilities definitely does not cost supplies - it just happens, if you have engineers present.

[Mike McCreery]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Repairing base facilities costs no supplies, either. It's just building them, although even there I'm not so sure. I would have to check back. But repairing base facilities definitely does not cost supplies - it just happens, if you have engineers present.

Isnt it just semantics though? Repairing facilities require engineers which require supplies. The supplies the engineers are using are the supplies being used to do the repair. You suffer if the engineers are not building or repairing because they are still goint to use those supplies.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Wargmr

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Repairing base facilities costs no supplies, either. It's just building them, although even there I'm not so sure. I would have to check back. But repairing base facilities definitely does not cost supplies - it just happens, if you have engineers present.

Isnt it just semantics though? Repairing facilities require engineers which require supplies. The supplies the engineers are using are the supplies being used to do the repair. You suffer if the engineers are not building or repairing because they are still goint to use those supplies.

No. The engineers eat the same amount whether they are repairing something or not. Repairing does NOT use additional supply, but building things does.

BUT, the base must have supply and engineers ** or the repairs do not happen.

** exception: runway repairs do not require engineers, but the engineers will repair them faster than other troops

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: Wargmr

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Repairing base facilities costs no supplies, either. It's just building them, although even there I'm not so sure. I would have to check back. But repairing base facilities definitely does not cost supplies - it just happens, if you have engineers present.

Isnt it just semantics though? Repairing facilities require engineers which require supplies. The supplies the engineers are using are the supplies being used to do the repair. You suffer if the engineers are not building or repairing because they are still goint to use those supplies.

No. The engineers eat the same amount whether they are repairing something or not. Repairing does NOT use additional supply, but building things does.

BUT, the base must have supply and engineers ** or the repairs do not happen.

** exception: runway repairs do not require engineers, but the engineers will repair them faster than other troops

I think engineers will still repair base damage, even if you're completely out of supply. Also note that the unit itself can have supply even when the base is out. Engineers have to eat, but they'll repair the facilities whether they've got stuff to eat or not. In this game engine.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: Wargmr




Isnt it just semantics though? Repairing facilities require engineers which require supplies. The supplies the engineers are using are the supplies being used to do the repair. You suffer if the engineers are not building or repairing because they are still goint to use those supplies.

No. The engineers eat the same amount whether they are repairing something or not. Repairing does NOT use additional supply, but building things does.

BUT, the base must have supply and engineers ** or the repairs do not happen.

** exception: runway repairs do not require engineers, but the engineers will repair them faster than other troops

I think engineers will still repair base damage, even if you're completely out of supply. Also note that the unit itself can have supply even when the base is out. Engineers have to eat, but they'll repair the facilities whether they've got stuff to eat or not. In this game engine.

And I am pretty sure I have seen the opposite, both in writing (on the forum - the manual doesn't really cover it for repairs as opposed to construction) and in my own games. It is possible it was changed in a patch though. I guess we agree to disagree until we can get more data ...

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy



No. The engineers eat the same amount whether they are repairing something or not. Repairing does NOT use additional supply, but building things does.

BUT, the base must have supply and engineers ** or the repairs do not happen.

** exception: runway repairs do not require engineers, but the engineers will repair them faster than other troops

I think engineers will still repair base damage, even if you're completely out of supply. Also note that the unit itself can have supply even when the base is out. Engineers have to eat, but they'll repair the facilities whether they've got stuff to eat or not. In this game engine.

And I am pretty sure I have seen the opposite, both in writing (on the forum - the manual doesn't really cover it for repairs as opposed to construction) and in my own games. It is possible it was changed in a patch though. I guess we agree to disagree until we can get more data ...

I'm sure it's happened in my games and I could go back to look it up, but this might be easier...

tm.asp?m=3142831&mpage=1&key=&#3142831

Also, I've long had this thread bookmarked in case I ever want to reference it, but I rarely do. Maybe twice in the last few years. I bookmarked it thinking I would use it to plan basebuilding with optimal numbers of engineers. But in it, you can find some discussion on how engineers that are expanding bases consume supply.

tm.asp?m=2885601&mpage=1&key=&#2885601

[BBfanboy]

I am not arguing about construction using supply and repairs NOT using supply. No question that is the way it works.

The question is whether the engineers can do their REPAIR work if the base and ENG unit have no supply. You say yes, I say I think I have seen the opposite - no repairs happening.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

I am not arguing about construction using supply and repairs NOT using supply. No question that is the way it works.

The question is whether the engineers can do their REPAIR work if the base and ENG unit have no supply. You say yes, I say I think I have seen the opposite - no repairs happening.

Alright. That is what I am saying, though - all you need is (non-disabled) engineers to be present and in combat mode. Obviously, if the unit is out of supply then it is going to begin suffering from engineer devices becoming disabled, which would impede repairs.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

I am not arguing about construction using supply and repairs NOT using supply. No question that is the way it works.

The question is whether the engineers can do their REPAIR work if the base and ENG unit have no supply. You say yes, I say I think I have seen the opposite - no repairs happening.

Alright. That is what I am saying, though - all you need is (non-disabled) engineers to be present and in combat mode. Obviously, if the unit is out of supply then it is going to begin suffering from engineer devices becoming disabled, which would impede repairs.

Now we are getting on the same wavelength. You say repairs are impeded by the disablement of engineers, I say (maybe) they cannot do repairs AT ALL, even before they become disabled. Will keep an eye out for evidence, but my current game has well-supplied engineers - I think what I saw was when I was sandboxing things and the Japanese were totally out of supply.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

I am not arguing about construction using supply and repairs NOT using supply. No question that is the way it works.

The question is whether the engineers can do their REPAIR work if the base and ENG unit have no supply. You say yes, I say I think I have seen the opposite - no repairs happening.

I might be able to check this...supply is somewhat of an issue in lots of places.

[Lowpe]

Sept 29, 1942

Allies naval bombard three ports on Honshu; then heavily aerially bombard Yokohama. Despite 100+ 12 cm AA guns there the Allies fly in at 7,000 feet and plaster the city in wave after wave of attacks.





Fires are now at 76,000. Oh my![:(]