Tale of the Sheep! - JocMeister (A) vs. Lowpe (J)

[Cap Mandrake]

ORIGINAL: JeffK

Be wary about massing airpower on coastal hexes, plenty of bases available 1 hex inland.

Yes. All you need is Kirishima and friends to show up.

[poodlebrain]

You got your 48 hour warning, and then some before the ground troops arrive. What sort of minelaying and PT reception can you give? What are the port and airfield levels for the bases you left undefended?

This has got to be a smash and burn operation given the insane length of his lines of communication. The problem is a quick capture of the only sensible targets ain't happening due to maxed out forts. So a siege would be necessary to capture either Los Angeles or San Diego. Isolating Los Angeles doesn't seem very practical, whereas isolating San Diego is not very challenging. Seems pretty evident that San Diego must be the Japanese primary objective.

[Cap Mandrake]

San Diego is much easier to take as it is a Clear hex. Good victory points too but not the stratospheric levels of strategic damage points available in LA. SD has quite a bit of USA B-24 production

Santa Ana and Camp Pendleton have level 2 AF at a minimum.

[tiemanjw]

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

San Diego is much easier to take as it is a Clear hex. Good victory points too but not the stratospheric levels of strategic damage points available in LA. SD has quite a bit of USA B-24 production

Santa Ana and Camp Pendleton have level 2 AF at a minimum.

You dint get strat VPs for taking a base, nor do you get them (i don't think, anyway) for destroying industry due to flipping a base. That said, A/C factories go away and any ships set to arrive there are destroyed giving full VPs.

I can't recall, but do any / many ships come in the smaller bases? Taking SD or LA (or Seattle, Portland, Tacoma, SF, etc for a day will give him a lot of ship VPs. Enough to push it to 4:1? Not sure. How does China look? Does the VP screen you showed the other day include the capture of chungking? If not, a successful west coast grab along with chungking could put him over the top.
He may not be able to stay, but he may be able to cause some trouble.
I think your forts will buy you enough time to get reinforcements in place...just make sure you don't fall for a feint and have them in the wrong place.

[catwhoorg]

This is going to be Epic to follow.

[poodlebrain]

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

San Diego is much easier to take as it is a Clear hex. Good victory points too but not the stratospheric levels of strategic damage points available in LA. SD has quite a bit of USA B-24 production

Santa Ana and Camp Pendleton have level 2 AF at a minimum.

The Japanese are not going to capture either of Los Angeles or San Diego without reducing the forts enough to get the attack odds above the fort level. Factor in the x2 terrain for L.A. and it would take a multi-month siege to capture L.A. That isn't happening since the Allies will have air supremacy in short order.

Capturing San Diego will be tough enough. Joc mentioned 2 divisions and 2 armor battalions being sent to augment the defenses at S.D. That is at least 700 unadjusted AV of additional defense. The Japanese would need at least 7,500 of adjusted AV to have a chance of capturing S.D. at fort level 9. I can't see them getting to 7,500, nor can I see the Allies only getting to 750 of adjusted AV.

I think this is a glorious exercise in futility by the Japanese. It's too bad the players can't charge for admission because this would be worth it for the entertainment value.

[savelius2]

I think that, futile or not, this save should be archived to explore the effects of the WC invasion and if it's remotely feasible under the best possible circumstances (i.e. Not '43). From an entertainment standpoint I have to say I'm hoping he doesn't get slaughtered on the beaches wherever he goes, but I'm pretty sure be will. Unfortunately, since that will not be without cost to the war effort and for the game to come.

[Cap Mandrake]

ORIGINAL: tiemanj

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

San Diego is much easier to take as it is a Clear hex. Good victory points too but not the stratospheric levels of strategic damage points available in LA. SD has quite a bit of USA B-24 production

Santa Ana and Camp Pendleton have level 2 AF at a minimum.

You dint get strat VPs for taking a base, nor do you get them (i don't think, anyway) for destroying industry due to flipping a base. That said, A/C factories go away and any ships set to arrive there are destroyed giving full VPs.

I can't recall, but do any / many ships come in the smaller bases? Taking SD or LA (or Seattle, Portland, Tacoma, SF, etc for a day will give him a lot of ship VPs. Enough to push it to 4:1? Not sure. How does China look? Does the VP screen you showed the other day include the capture of chungking? If not, a successful west coast grab along with chungking could put him over the top.
He may not be able to stay, but he may be able to cause some trouble.
I think your forts will buy you enough time to get reinforcements in place...just make sure you don't fall for a feint and have them in the wrong place.

You may be right about strat VP's simply for flipping. In our game we gave up about 300 Strat VP's when Brisbane fell. Perhaps from damaged or destroyed shipyard or heavy industry?

[Cap Mandrake]

I looked it up. LA produces 19 DD's, 12 DE, 7 AV/AR/AS, 100+ AP/APA's, 100-200 Liberty ships

If you really get VP's for all of those that must be 2500+ pts.

LA is also a major source of P-51's of all models.

San Diego produces 7 CVE's

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: poodlebrain

You got your 48 hour warning, and then some before the ground troops arrive. What sort of minelaying and PT reception can you give? What are the port and airfield levels for the bases you left undefended?

This has got to be a smash and burn operation given the insane length of his lines of communication. The problem is a quick capture of the only sensible targets ain't happening due to maxed out forts. So a siege would be necessary to capture either Los Angeles or San Diego. Isolating Los Angeles doesn't seem very practical, whereas isolating San Diego is not very challenging. Seems pretty evident that San Diego must be the Japanese primary objective.

Nah - he'll avoid San Diego - too risky. The Mexican cartels will be all over him!

[Anachro]

You are all wrong...this is a feint for the real operation towards the Eastern United States and dictation of terms in the White House itself!

[CaptBeefheart]

Epic battle coming up. I second the notion of archiving your save so we can experiment with different approaches later.[:)]

EDIT: Would be great if you could give us some idea of your defenses and base levels on the map (e.g. 2 ID, 1 RCT, 1 BF, 1 Tk Bn / AF:2; P:2; F:5).

Cheers,
CC

[JocMeister]

Hi guys.

Working on the turn and I hope I will have time to update with some more info after that. [:)]

[poodlebrain]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Hi guys.

Working on the turn and I hope I will have time to update with some more info after that. [:)]

Take your time getting the turn right. I'll survive, somehow, until you can get around to updating the AAR. I feel bad asking for so much background information, but this is a battle for the ages. The history buffs, and armchair generals, among your readers are just wanting as complete a picture as possible. I think the questions you have been getting are the best evidence of the importance of information/intelligence to players of the game.

[SqzMyLemon]

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

You may be right about strat VP's simply for flipping. In our game we gave up about 300 Strat VP's when Brisbane fell. Perhaps from damaged or destroyed shipyard or heavy industry?

I can confirm. You get ZERO strategic VP's by capturing with ground forces. I captured Sydney and not a single strategic VP was gained. This seems like a huge oversight in my opinion. If you bomb you get the points, but if you actually capture the facilities you can't destroy them to get the points. Go figure.

[JocMeister]

[font="Verdana"]Allied response pt II[/font]
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Jeff timed his invasion horribly. My father in law is visiting to babysit the kids tomorrow as I leave for my brother in laws 40th B-day. He is throwing a huge party as he spent the last 9 years not celebrating his B-days telling everyone "I´ll throw a big one on my 40th...." [:D]

Just sent the turn back to Jeff but it will be the last one until Sunday evening I´m afraid.

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Allied forces on the WC
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See the attached map for more details. As someone said I think I have a two day warning. Possibly even three. This means I will have my defense up and running for the most part. I need to hold for about a week before reinforcements will arrive. I´m 99% sure this won´t be an issue.

As I mentioned earlier the plan is to turtle up at SD and LA while we gather reinforcements and then counter attack. I´ll rest my air force for now. I will only get one shot and I don´t want to waste it trying to punch through the KB cap. PT boats are moving down from the North and will arrive in 3-4 days. I have a small navy at SF. A few CLs and some DDs. I have an idea what to do with them.

I´m really glad I acted last turn already. Feels like I got a head start.

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NORPAC
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While i´m 99,8% sure the invasion is the real deal the threat still remains in NORPAC. I have to keep a strong force here. At least for now. Some of the RGT have been shifted to strat mode and will move a bit south where they will be in range to response to both North and South.

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Initial thoughts/musings
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Finally. Been waiting for the push to come. This was the 2nd best thing that could have happened for the allies. While I would have preferred a Japanese counter attack in India as I´m stronger there this move puts a lot of PERM restricted allied forces into play. It also triggers some powerful reinforcements which wouldn´t have become available in India.

I have prepared for this for over a year. Forts are strong. Troops are upgraded and ready. We will prevail.


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Openings
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Obviously the presence of KB on the WC opens up huge possibilities elsewhere. Plans are now set in motion. In fact I spent more time setting these up then I did sorting through the WC. I should have prepared better though but I hope to begin loading troops within 7-10 days. 3 big invasions within 20-30 days.

[JocMeister]

I see Jeff updated his AAR. I might get the replay in time for an update. If not I won´t be back until Sunday.

[poodlebrain]

This is going to be the Battle of Sumatra fought by CanoeRebel and JohnIII with Lowpe playing the role of invader and you being the defender. The results are going to be a crushing defeat for the invaders, without any of the benefits CanoeRebel got from tying down Japanese forces for 6 months.

The capture of San Diego by the Japanese would be a miracle. The capture of Los Angeles an impossibility unless the Americans abandon the city. There can be no Dunkirk for the Japanese units put ashore. Extraction will require possession of a significant port. So all LCUs committed to the invasion are forfeit. It is just a matter of time, and the Americans get to use units that would have been idle for any other purpose.

The Allies will establish air supremacy in short order due to availability of bases. The only significant Japanese air presence will be the KB, and its primary task will be protection of Japanese shipping. Any strikes launched by the KB will have minimal escort. The combination of Allied CAP and AA will shred attacking aircraft. Allied LB will have a field day attacking Japanese troops in clear terrain.

The Allies are not at risk of losing any major naval assets while the Japanese have practically everything at risk. The Allies can commit to battle at their choosing while the Japanese must commit their ships to restricted areas of operation for the duration of the invasion. The only problem is getting the Allied combat TFs into position because of inadequate ports to operate from.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Jeff timed his invasion horribly. My father in law is visiting to babysit the kids tomorrow as I leave for my brother in laws 40th B-day. He is throwing a huge party as he spent the last 9 years not celebrating his B-days telling everyone "I´ll throw a big one on my 40th...." [:D]

Just sent the turn back to Jeff but it will be the last one until Sunday evening I´m afraid.

Don't you mean Tuesday?

There will be beer right? Nine years of celebrating packed into one party full of Swedes who last time out ended the night in a German lock-up? [:D]

[JeffroK]

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Jeff timed his invasion horribly. My father in law is visiting to babysit the kids tomorrow as I leave for my brother in laws 40th B-day. He is throwing a huge party as he spent the last 9 years not celebrating his B-days telling everyone "I´ll throw a big one on my 40th...." [:D]

Just sent the turn back to Jeff but it will be the last one until Sunday evening I´m afraid.

Don't you mean Tuesday?

There will be beer right? Nine years of celebrating packed into one party full of Swedes who last time out ended the night in a German lock-up? [:D]

But there was Football involved.

Oooops, there is Football On!!!