at sea replenishment question

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

In the case of an underway replenishment by AE, it makes sense to have a large enough AE by capacity (5400 to handle the Iowa class) but not to require that it be fully loaded. Replenishing an Iowa class does not require 5400 tons of ammo, and it is ludicrous to think that any BB captain would take a wave-off when he could get SOME of his main gun ammo instead of none. And then there is the issue that smaller ammo gets transferred first, so a BB would basically never be able to use underway replenishment if the AE had to be fully stocked.

This was bugging me, so I ran some tests. I'm going to start a new thread in the General. The results were . . . odd.

[jmalter]

ORIGINAL: jcjordan
So no replenishing of CV sorties at sea? Should that not be possible/was it done historically as I assume CV sorties amounts mostly to bombs/torps/av fuel?

After 12/44, Allied AEs in ReplTFs can resupply carrier sorties at sea. Operations points are a limiting factor.

[Alfred]

There is just too much incorrect information in this thread.  I have addressed some of the issues in this concurrent thread.
 
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4095833
 
Alfred

[jcjordan]

ORIGINAL: jmalter

ORIGINAL: jcjordan
So no replenishing of CV sorties at sea? Should that not be possible/was it done historically as I assume CV sorties amounts mostly to bombs/torps/av fuel?

After 12/44, Allied AEs in ReplTFs can resupply carrier sorties at sea. Operations points are a limiting factor.

OK thanks, I was wondering since I'm now at the point in the game where I was trying to have my CV's pretty much at sea constantly so as far as resupply, I'm just a bit too early

[geofflambert]

ORIGINAL: Alfred

There is just too much incorrect information in this thread.  I have addressed some of the issues in this concurrent thread.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4095833

Alfred

As always, thank you very much for any efforts you make here, Alfred.

[John B.]

I also posted this on the other replenishment thread. I think IMHO [:)]that it provides some insight into possible reasons for limitations on replenishing ammo at sea.

It seems that underway replenishment mainly concentrated on ammunition for AA guns and aircraft. It does not appear that BBs rearmed at sea with large caliber ammunition so any limitations that the game places on using AEs to re-arm the Iowas seems pretty realistic.

"From 22 March to 27 May [during the battle of Okinawa] the five ammunition ships of Service Squadron Six--Wrangell, Shasta, Lassen, Mauna Loa, and Vesuvius--in a total of 106 days servicing, delivered a daly average of 143 tons, making a total of 15,159 tons. . . The types of ammunition issued 22 March-27 May indicate the demands: 77,482 5-inch, 38-caliber projectiles; 34,773 5-inch rockets; 119 2,000-pound bombs, G.P.; 65 1,000-pound bombs, G.P.; 280 1,000-pound bombs, G.P.; 100 500-pound bombs, S.A.P.; 3,671 250-pound bombs, G.P.; 18,579 100-pound bombs, G.P.; 83 torpedoes A/C/; 810 depth charges; 289 arbors." http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USN/BBBO/BBBO-28.html (extensive article on US Navy logistics in WWII by Rear Admiral Carter) Shore bombardment ships (which I presume includes BBs) rearmed at the anchorage at Korama Retto. Id.

Also note the average transfer rate per day of 143 tons. The Iowa class battleship held about 1,200 16" shells in storage. http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_16-50_mk7.php. Weighing in at slightly more than one ton per shell it would take the five AEs at the average rates listed more than a week to rearm one Iowa that had shot off most of her main battery shells. Even with surge rearming it would take several days to rearm just the main batteries. Since use of the 16" guns was fairly infrequent in WWII (as opposed to the game) compared to the daily use of AA ammo and aircraft bombs it makes all kinds of sense that the Navy would not have the AEs equipped to transfer 16" shells.

Other Fun facts, the first underway replenishment in wartime took place in 1917 under the watchful eye of then Chief Engineer Chester Nimitz. the first at-sea transfer of ammunition was on February 23, 1945 to the CV Bennington. The Carrier TFs would spend 2 days attacking Japan and then meet up with underway replenishment group and line up for 40 miles each ship refueling, breaking away, rearming, breaking away, and then re victualing and breaking away to return to attack Japan.

http://www.sname.org/HigherLogic/System ... cc2f9a1d1b

[geofflambert]

Thanks John B. for posting that. My understanding is that the IJN was testing the same sort of underway replenishment, but perhaps never perfected it or perhaps abandoned the concept. I'd like to know more about that.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

Thanks John B. for posting that. My understanding is that the IJN was testing the same sort of underway replenishment, but perhaps never perfected it or perhaps abandoned the concept. I'd like to know more about that.

Since the IJN would not have been ahead of the USN in developing underway replenishment, by 1945 they would have abandoned the effort for lack of ships!

[Leandros]

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

ORIGINAL: Alfred

There is just too much incorrect information in this thread.  I have addressed some of the issues in this concurrent thread.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4095833

Alfred

As always, thank you very much for any efforts you make here, Alfred.

I join you heartily in that, Geoff - as I believe I have found the probable cause to my little problem -
that of battle wagon ammo replenishment in port. I refer to Alfred's note that fuel is replenished first -
no fuel, no ammo! Well, my port did not have fuel oil. Plenty of supplies, but no fuel oil. Fuel is being unloaded
there now and the AE ship is being loaded up (that said, the last 24 hours it has been depleted again, because of
the general large activity in the port, I suppose).

We shall see if tomorrow brings any improvements.

Fred

[Yaab]

Wrong thread.[:D]

[rms1pa]

AE ship is being loaded up (that said, the last 24 hours it has been depleted again, because of
the general large activity in the port, I suppose).

note if the support ship is due for refit and upgrade is on,it will unload itself to refit.

rms/pa

[RangerJoe]

You can reload them in the shipyards so when they come out of the refit/repairs they have cargo aboard.