Tale of the Sheep! - JocMeister (A) vs. Lowpe (J)

[RangerJoe]

I am new to the game, but I start by stockpiling the Garrison units AND the CD guns which immobilize units. That way, an upgrade at a bad position will not lock a unit in place.

Thank you for the information on upgrading devices.

Nicely done on the air phase. [&o]

Instead of pulling the KB into port, he might unload the fuel from the tankers and load oilers.

Check to see if his fighters can relocate from Coal Harbor to both bases. Without checking, it might be that they can reach one but not the other, hence the need for both bases. If that is true, shut down the intermediate airfield if at all possible. Harass Cold Harbor if possible.

See if you can airdrop mines at night. That can also cause casualties and would be difficult to interdict. Any serious damage this far from a safe port could spell the end of that ship. Also, don't forget the constant PT boat attacks, even if all that they do is slow down the unloading process.

Consider concentrating your armor and mobile units to smash the smaller invasion while infantry units move so they can invest the other captured base. When you move into the second captured base, consider including some CD guns IF they will bombard any enemy shipping there. Don't forget to include AA units as well.

Be on guard for paradrops from Santa Ana to other bases, even if they just slow down the movement for your strategically moving reinforcements. If necessary, air transfer even small detachments to bases that are in danger and are empty.

[tiemanjw]

ORIGINAL: BillBrown

Found this in the patch notes.

40. After 6 months, an expired pooled device (squad or engineer type) will slowly convert to the upgraded version; if Japan, obsolete devices will revert to the raw materials

Also, "squad" type devices returned to the pool will automatically upgrade as well. So once you get 91 of them, you can split a USA division in 3, and each will upgrade...then recombine. Basically, when you are doing upgrades (as opposed to replacements) Squad devices never go down in the pools.

[BillBrown]

ORIGINAL: tiemanj

ORIGINAL: BillBrown

Found this in the patch notes.

40. After 6 months, an expired pooled device (squad or engineer type) will slowly convert to the upgraded version; if Japan, obsolete devices will revert to the raw materials

Also, "squad" type devices returned to the pool will automatically upgrade as well. So once you get 91 of them, you can split a USA division in 3, and each will upgrade...then recombine. Basically, when you are doing upgrades (as opposed to replacements) Squad devices never go down in the pools.

While your post is correct, it does not answer what happens to obsolete squad devices. Joc has about 300 of them.

[crsutton]

Why don't you just disband a dozen or so air groups in other theaters? You will have the aircraft to flush out some of your new squadrons in about a week or less. Certainly you must have a lot of squadrons in other theaters that are idle. Yes, you will lose the units for six months and be putting aircraft in restricted squadrons but I think the opportunity to crush the Japanese would more than compensate for this.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: BillBrown

ORIGINAL: tiemanj

ORIGINAL: BillBrown

Found this in the patch notes.

40. After 6 months, an expired pooled device (squad or engineer type) will slowly convert to the upgraded version; if Japan, obsolete devices will revert to the raw materials

Also, "squad" type devices returned to the pool will automatically upgrade as well. So once you get 91 of them, you can split a USA division in 3, and each will upgrade...then recombine. Basically, when you are doing upgrades (as opposed to replacements) Squad devices never go down in the pools.

While your post is correct, it does not answer what happens to obsolete squad devices. Joc has about 300 of them.

The new devices are just the old ones with some new equipment. The old ones get used up creating the new ones.

[RangerJoe]

Another way to get aircraft is to move air units that have damaged aircraft. Move the unit to another airbase where the fragment can't rail to it, then disband the fragment. You should get the airplanes into your stockpile after they are repaired. That way, you can still have the air unit still on the map to train pilots. If the fragment is at a base with another air unit with that type of airplane, the damaged planes will then go to that air unit that is there. At least it works for non-permanently restricted air units.

If you have air units with reserves, you can also return those to the pool.

Disbanded air units usually return in 60 to 120 days at the national base.

[BillBrown]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: BillBrown

ORIGINAL: tiemanj




Also, "squad" type devices returned to the pool will automatically upgrade as well. So once you get 91 of them, you can split a USA division in 3, and each will upgrade...then recombine. Basically, when you are doing upgrades (as opposed to replacements) Squad devices never go down in the pools.

While your post is correct, it does not answer what happens to obsolete squad devices. Joc has about 300 of them.

The new devices are just the old ones with some new equipment. The old ones get used up creating the new ones.

Last post on this. Joc has 300 1942 rifle squads. His units have all updated to 1942 rifle squads. Explain how you change 1942 squads with 1942 squads and get squad updates to 1943 rifle squads? You can not "update" a squad device with the same device.

[BBfanboy]

BillBrown, I thought you were referring to the update of the 1942 squads to 1943 squads while still in the pools?

When he updates the ones in his units from the pools there are 1942 squads (the "obsolete device") put back in the pools but within the pools upgrading the 1942 squad to 1943 version does not create a leftover obsolete device - n'est ce pas?

If you are referring to another batch of 300 obsolete devices I am not sure what it is.

[tiemanjw]

ORIGINAL: BillBrown

ORIGINAL: tiemanj

ORIGINAL: BillBrown

Found this in the patch notes.

40. After 6 months, an expired pooled device (squad or engineer type) will slowly convert to the upgraded version; if Japan, obsolete devices will revert to the raw materials

Also, "squad" type devices returned to the pool will automatically upgrade as well. So once you get 91 of them, you can split a USA division in 3, and each will upgrade...then recombine. Basically, when you are doing upgrades (as opposed to replacements) Squad devices never go down in the pools.

While your post is correct, it does not answer what happens to obsolete squad devices. Joc has about 300 of them.

Agreed... I just wanted to point out you don't need to worry about which unit to upgrade (for squads only). Once you have enough new ones, the upgrade is basically free.
The old ones in the pool (the 300 or so) will behaive as you say.
He cant update today...but he doesn't need to wait long until production gives him enough new '43 devices such that he can quickly upgrade all his infantry.
Just make sure you "stockpile" non squad devices that may upgrade that you don't have enough for all 3 division components (like the 57mm AT). Ask me how I know that one!

[JocMeister]

Thanks guys! Didn´t know about the 6th month delay. Makes sense though.

Still no turn from Jeff. If I get it tonight I´ll prioritize to get the turn back from him before updating the AAR. Might not have time for both.

[JocMeister]

[font="Verdana"]Airlosses Day 2[/font]
_____________________________________________________________________________

This is even better then expected. Losses are inflated of course but probably around 60 Zeroes shot down. I think all of those are from KB. Good day!

Jeff had indeed moved KB to the Santa Ana hex. I don´t think he had done so to intentionally hinder strikes from flying though. But it sucks for me because it means I stand very little chance of getting strikes to fly against the beachhead. [:(]

My airfields are still not operational behind LA and I don´t dare keep them at LA for another day. I´ll fly the LBA strike planes back to SF for now and settle for sweeps tomorrow. Don´t want to fly them off smaller AFs without enough support and AirHQ.

Not a perfect day but certainly a blow to KB if it was indeed KB planes.

[poodlebrain]

I´ll fly the LBA strike planes back to SF for now and settle for sweeps tomorrow.

Can you transfer some to San Diego instead? How soon will you be able to operate from Mojave or Bakersfield?

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: poodlebrain

I´ll fly the LBA strike planes back to SF for now and settle for sweeps tomorrow.

Can you transfer some to San Diego instead? How soon will you be able to operate from Mojave or Bakersfield?

Its only a level 7 AF and I neglected to top off with AS. So I can´t launch a full strike from there. In hindsight I should have built up and prepared at least March Field or Bakersville. But I honestly didn´t expect this although I semi prepared for it. Hindsight is always a...

In good news though I decided on a course of action for the West Coast and I´m even more positive now. Its a pretty darn good plan if I might say so! [:D]

All I need is for SD to last 2 or 3 attacks. I don´t know if I put too much faith in the forts though. My experience with level 9 forts in clear terrain is...absolutely zero.

[poodlebrain]

All I need is for SD to last 2 or 3 attacks. I don´t know if I put too much faith in the forts though. My experience with level 9 forts in clear terrain is...absolutely zero.

In order to capture a base the attacker needs combat odds greater than the fortification level. So the first Japanese attack would have to get to 10:1 odds to have a chance of capturing San Diego. Even if reduced to Lvl 6, which would take at least two "successful" attacks by the Japanese, they would need a 7:1 attack. I doubt they can get odds that high once you have gotten all of your emergency response air force units in place. You should have ample opportunity to launch ground strikes on his LCUs moving from Santa Ana to San Diego in clear terrain. The disruption levels for the Japanese should be sufficient to cause delays in his ability to attack with full effectiveness.

[tiemanjw]

What CD guns are in LA / SD... I've seen 16" battery fortifications at point Loma, and I can't imagine LA having less. My experience with those monsters is that you probably want him to bombard LA. Would it be so bad to keep flying from there? A few destroyed ac many damaged (that can be railed out), a bunch of sunk cruisers, destroyers and damaged battleships a loooooooong way from repair.

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: poodlebrain

All I need is for SD to last 2 or 3 attacks. I don´t know if I put too much faith in the forts though. My experience with level 9 forts in clear terrain is...absolutely zero.

In order to capture a base the attacker needs combat odds greater than the fortification level. So the first Japanese attack would have to get to 10:1 odds to have a chance of capturing San Diego. Even if reduced to Lvl 6, which would take at least two "successful" attacks by the Japanese, they would need a 7:1 attack. I doubt they can get odds that high once you have gotten all of your emergency response air force units in place. You should have ample opportunity to launch ground strikes on his LCUs moving from Santa Ana to San Diego in clear terrain. The disruption levels for the Japanese should be sufficient to cause delays in his ability to attack with full effectiveness.

Yes, but they can reduce the forts one level per turn even with 1:47 billion odds as long as they have combat engineers in the attack.

On the plus side, unless he damages and keeps damaged the airfield or port the forts can be rebuilt.

[poodlebrain]

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

ORIGINAL: poodlebrain

All I need is for SD to last 2 or 3 attacks. I don´t know if I put too much faith in the forts though. My experience with level 9 forts in clear terrain is...absolutely zero.

In order to capture a base the attacker needs combat odds greater than the fortification level. So the first Japanese attack would have to get to 10:1 odds to have a chance of capturing San Diego. Even if reduced to Lvl 6, which would take at least two "successful" attacks by the Japanese, they would need a 7:1 attack. I doubt they can get odds that high once you have gotten all of your emergency response air force units in place. You should have ample opportunity to launch ground strikes on his LCUs moving from Santa Ana to San Diego in clear terrain. The disruption levels for the Japanese should be sufficient to cause delays in his ability to attack with full effectiveness.

Yes, but they can reduce the forts one level per turn even with 1:47 billion odds as long as they have combat engineers in the attack.

On the plus side, unless he damages and keeps damaged the airfield or port the forts can be rebuilt.

All those low odds attacks cost men, materials and supplies. And the first casualties among the men will be many of the combat engineers needed to reduce the forts.

My concern from watching events is the inability to keep airpower in the region. The target rich environment is at its most vulnerable. There is a strong likelihood that LBA fighters will be making an appearance soon. If that happens then the role of the KB can convert from totally defensive to offensive. There are 5 airfields that would have been easy to secure that should all be Lvl 7 or larger. There should be literally hundreds of aircraft with strikes plotted on Japanese shipping and ground forces on a daily basis.

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: tiemanj

What CD guns are in LA / SD... I've seen 16" battery fortifications at point Loma, and I can't imagine LA having less. My experience with those monsters is that you probably want him to bombard LA. Would it be so bad to keep flying from there? A few destroyed ac many damaged (that can be railed out), a bunch of sunk cruisers, destroyers and damaged battleships a loooooooong way from repair.

From my experience CD guns are completely useless against bombardments. They only really matter against landings.

[poodlebrain]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

ORIGINAL: tiemanj

What CD guns are in LA / SD... I've seen 16" battery fortifications at point Loma, and I can't imagine LA having less. My experience with those monsters is that you probably want him to bombard LA. Would it be so bad to keep flying from there? A few destroyed ac many damaged (that can be railed out), a bunch of sunk cruisers, destroyers and damaged battleships a loooooooong way from repair.

From my experience CD guns are completely useless against bombardments. They only really matter against landings.

Section 6.8 of the rules states, "Every time a TF enters an enemy base hex, enemy coastal guns in the hex may fire at the ships in the TF. This can occur whether the TF has the enemy base hex as its destination, or is passing through the hex on its way to another location." I don't think it is common for CD guns to respond unless an amphibious assault is occurring, but it should be possible. I know I've seen CD guns cause massive damage to TFs trying to force narrow straits, e.g. Bataan.

Why shore batteries do not fire is a mystery to me. I would think that ships would have to alter their paths to avoid even harassing fire, and that would reduce the effectiveness of any shore bombardment. I think there might be a glitch that prevents the CD units from firing based on the shortest ranged weapon in each unit. As such a CD unit with 14" or 16" guns don't fire because the guns with less range can't reach the targets.

[Cap Mandrake]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

ORIGINAL: tiemanj

What CD guns are in LA / SD... I've seen 16" battery fortifications at point Loma, and I can't imagine LA having less. My experience with those monsters is that you probably want him to bombard LA. Would it be so bad to keep flying from there? A few destroyed ac many damaged (that can be railed out), a bunch of sunk cruisers, destroyers and damaged battleships a loooooooong way from repair.

From my experience CD guns are completely useless against bombardments. They only really matter against landings.

Well, this depends on the armor of the attacking vessels and the minimum specified range of the bombardment plus the caliber of the CD guns, fatigue, commander..etc. etc. I have definitely seen DD's take damage or even a CA lose a main battery to damage. I you stand off 4000 yds or so and use BB's they are almost invulnerable.
It makes perfect sense that a maneuvering bombardment force is much less vulnerable than an amphibious force trying to disembark. I have seen mine sweeper TF's obliterated without a trace by CD guns.