Some newcomer suggestions for PnS:C future updates

In the age of Pike and Shot, mighty struggles erupted across Europe for causes religious, political or dynastic. The Thirty Years War raged across Germany and beyond, leaving devastation in its wake, but saw the rise of great commanders such as Count Tilly, Wallenstein and King Gustavus Adolphus of Sweden, and rapid developments in battlefield tactics.
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VektorT
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 10:17 pm

Some newcomer suggestions for PnS:C future updates

Post by VektorT »

First off: what'a nice game!! I bought it on sale very unpretentiously and I'm actually amazed how entertaining and challenging this game could be! It's very basic to look but very depth to master! You battle strategy matters a lot but not so hard to the point that things can't go totally unexpected for good or for evil!

But despite that, I have some very personal suggestions that I think can improve the game in the future:

Interface:

- First off, fix the "Load" button. It click case is way bigger than the visual button. You can see it when you put your mouse over it and start to go down with the mouse. If you notice, between the "Save" button and the text box where you type the save name there still is a click box for the "Load" button. It's making me load instead of save a lot and sometimes it is really frustrating...

- More tooltips, both in and out battle. In campaing map I can't see the exact specifications (like Combat, Shooting and Armor ratings) of given unit, neither when I'm recruiting or when I right-click an army. It's difficulty to know what I'm recruiting that way. In combat, it would be nice to have a tooltip when you hover the mouse over a unit writen stats to know what they actually mean and do (foot types/weapons types). To consult the manual is cool, but not for such simple things that could be ingame.

- A simple button or text in unit details saying if has a keil enabled or not.

Actual gameplay:

- Units auto pursuing fleeing enemy and auto-charging in this situation can be 'kinda' (kin-da) historical and add a new strategic layer, but sometimes it makes no sense and is just annoying, especially with cavs. When your cav waaay down in the enemy flanks just pursuit and enemy for two or more turns right inside the enemy army just to charge or get charged by a pike formation, it's not fun neither logical. It seens very broken, in fact. When I'm trying to play my cavs in the enemy flanks just to see my heavy cavalry run right into the enemy claws and teeths is very frustrating. Maybe the whole pursuit thing should be more rational and not just so auto: unit should consider not to pursuit a faster enemy or also stop pursuing if it makes it get closer of enemy active units or just put their own safety in danger. Light cavalry should be more prone to auto pursuit than heavy cavalry, that generally must choose not to do so. Same for light and heavy infantry. It makes no sense at all for a unit in tight formation just to start ruining mindlessly.

- The campaing is very cool and fun, but would be awesome to see it made exponentially bigger. Big maps would be awesome, also more factions in a single campaing. Even if ingame diplomacy can't be added, choosing allies for you and the enemy like team A vs team B before the game actually starts would be nice. And a bigger map (did I already said that?). Make the campaings last more than a couple of hours and just ~10 battles would be awesome. It don't need to be a grand strategy, but to have a campaing that could last a couple of days instead a couple of hours would be lovely. Also getting new types of unit during a single campaing would be very cool

- Speaking about campaings... one thing that kinda makes it longer but also makes it more boring is the AI cowardly behavour. To actually engage in your terms is very difficulty since the AI runs forever. Most of the times I'm fighting in the enemy terms because they always runnaway when I attack, but I can't runnaway from them when they attack. Situations where I actually manage to trap or lure them with 2 armies is very rare.

- More control about how battle ends: % of routed required and turn limit could be optional or toggled by ingame menu. Additionally an optional smart victory condition for "Army lost heart" victory/defeat (optional, since it can be toggled on/off in game menu): makes little to no sense to an enemy always surrenders at 60% if the other side losted 58%. This battle is even. Generally is being the most thrilling battle where you can't tell if you will win or lose and every turns and individual battles count, so it becomes a shame when it auto-ends because of the 60% hard limit. So, let's say, starting at 60%, the winning side must have 15 or 20% less routed forces to the losing side actually loses heart. Example, for you to win at 60% enemy routed, you need to have less than 40 ou 45% routed unit, otherwise the battle continues until there is a = or > 20% in difference. The difference required may fall to 10% after 80% to get things faster. This would make even battles last longer and a more hopeless situation for anyone to lose heart... this will means more carnage and fun! :D

- More differences and uses between arty. They kinda feel the same right now despite range and light artillery mobility. My suggestion would be something like this:
> Heavy: wider damage range, going from 0 (total miss) to a way higher number. Bigger shooting range and siege capability. Worst mobility.
> Medium: mid rank of both damage and range. Grape shot ability, meaning great damage boost on point blank fire (1-2 squares away).
> Light: less damage range, but proportionally better min damage (more accurate/more guns). Can turn 45º and shot in the same turn. Best mobility.
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rbodleyscott
Posts: 132
Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2014 10:17 am

RE: Some newcomer suggestions for PnS:C future updates

Post by rbodleyscott »

Thanks for your suggestions.

With regard to the following:
In combat, it would be nice to have a tooltip when you hover the mouse over a unit writen stats to know what they actually mean and do (foot types/weapons types).

If you turn Detailed Tooltips on in the Advanced Options menu, you can see all the factors that apply to a combat before charging and during the combat. You can turn Detailed Tooltips on temporarily by holding down the CTRL key.

You can also get full details of a units capabilities and what they do by CTRL-L clicking on the unit.
A simple button or text in unit details saying if has a keil enabled or not.

Whether it has Keil enabled or not is shown in the unit information panel at the bottom of the screen when you select or mouse over the unit.
- Speaking about campaings... one thing that kinda makes it longer but also makes it more boring is the AI cowardly behavour. To actually engage in your terms is very difficulty since the AI runs forever. Most of the times I'm fighting in the enemy terms because they always runnaway when I attack, but I can't runnaway from them when they attack.

In fact your generals follow exactly the same algorithm as the AI's generals in deciding whether to retreat or fight. Your armies certainly can and will retreat if the general on the spot deems them outmatched. (The odds required to trigger this depend on the difficulty level).
Situations where I actually manage to trap or lure them with 2 armies is very rare.


As they were historically. However, the campaign system is primarily designed to give context to the battles, and for each battle to be a challenge rather than a walkover for either side. This does mean that neither side can force battle at odds heavily unfavourable to the enemy, but if they could the resulting battles would be rather tedious to play out.
- More control about how battle ends: % of routed required and turn limit could be optional or toggled by ingame menu. Additionally an optional smart victory condition for "Army lost heart" victory/defeat (optional, since it can be toggled on/off in game menu): makes little to no sense to an enemy always surrenders at 60% if the other side losted 58%. This battle is even. Generally is being the most thrilling battle where you can't tell if you will win or lose and every turns and individual battles count, so it becomes a shame when it auto-ends because of the 60% hard limit. So, let's say, starting at 60%, the winning side must have 15 or 20% less routed forces to the losing side actually loses heart. Example, for you to win at 60% enemy routed, you need to have less than 40 ou 45% routed unit, otherwise the battle continues until there is a = or > 20% in difference. The difference required may fall to 10% after 80% to get things faster. This would make even battles last longer and a more hopeless situation for anyone to lose heart... this will means more carnage and fun! :D

Of course historically armies did not fight until all of one side was dead and there were 3 men left standing on the other side. Even if a battle was fairly even, at some point the morale of one army cracked. I take your point, however, about giving the player the option to set the victory conditions as "last man standing" if they want.
VektorT
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 10:17 pm

RE: Some newcomer suggestions for PnS:C future updates

Post by VektorT »

Many thanks for the fast reply, rbodleyscott!

Your first two quotes... I ended finding them myself soon after posting, expect the CTRL and CTRL+L thing. Really nice to know that! Many, many thanks!

Also... nice to know the AI follows the same rules I do! I started a new campaing against a apparently much more competent enemy. The campaign is not a withdrawal feast anymore and I did saw my army withdrawal sometimes. Well... I kinda miss the withdrawals by now, things is getting rough now! Like you said, basically every battles are getting really intense by now.

For the victory conditions thing... I understand the historical point of view, but gameplaywise I miss the intensity of fighting to the last man and see the battle end when almost every soldiers is dead or fleeing, especially when the score is very close. I think it would be cool to add some options for the player to tweak it to the way he likes, like max turn limit and % to lose heart. My last battle just ended with in the exact last turn coinciding with both armies taking 62% of broken troops in that very last turn! Really, no kidding! The battle was so fierce and balanced that I would loved to have being able to play just a couple more turns to see how it would end and who would achieve a more decisive situation first!

The devs really put a pretty decent and challenging AI on this game, I give you that. Probably one of the or THE most competitive AI I had seeing for a couple of years in strategy games. Lost two battles that made me totally rethink how I approach the AI: one because I tried to lure the AI to do a stupid move by harassing them, they didn't took the lure and I lost precious time by doing so. Other because I tried to encircle the fortified AI with my army split in two and the AI actually seemed to take a bet and make a risk move by leaving the fortifications and engaging me before I could properly deploy my splitted forces around them and broke my legs.
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