7th sumerset scenario 012

[mramsdale]

played this one,normal difficulty. The Germans retreated squads and the panther to the exit zone, hidden in a corner of the map behind some buildings. Not very challenging. I'm surprised this occurred.

[rico21]

[:D]
I think Paullus made this scenario for Baloo7777.

[Paullus]

Well they are taking up defensive positions. This scenario was balanced using Hard Difficulty setting. Should be more of a challenge.

[UP844]

Excuse me Paullus, but I strongly disagree with your assessment.

AI units, when there are no VP hexes but exit hexes only and when they don't see enemy units, run to the exit hexes and stay there. You can also see this behaviour in other scenarios, namely "Escape from Velikyie Luki", "Puma Prowls" or my own "Buchholz Station".

The image below has been taken a few minutes ago, playing the scenario at "Very Hard" difficulty level. On the first German turn, the Panther ran for the leftmost bottom hex (red arrow) and stopped there (facing off-map); the infantrty squads joined it just afterwards.

The British are moving south on both sides of the canal, after having eliminated the German squads at the bridge end. The units on the right bank, following the shortest path to the exit hexes (blue arrow) will never be in LOS of the remaining German units. The units on the left bank would be exposed to German fire as they exit the southernmost bridge, but cover and hindrances should greatly reduce its lethality. The lone Sherman III will be subject to fire from the Panther (cyan arrow), but since the latter has to fire at a moving target, through two hindrance hexes and also has to change its TCA three times, the chances of a hit look reasonably slim to me.

[rico21]

[:D]
+1
Paullus do you know use that?

[UP844]

I made a quick test, setting the German units at the bottom of the map to defend their set-up hexes. Unengaged Germans do not run away anymore, and - from the very limited testing I made - the British would have a much more difficult task to accomplish.

[rico21]

[:D]
UP844 discovered a new level of difficulty

[Paullus]

I agree UP844, this could be a problem in some scenarios. I think that the changes made to the AI behavior, which over all made the AI much better may have tilted the balance in some scenarios. Using the Special Command as rico suggests is a good way to handle this. I did this with some of the scenarios released and I can see that scenario 012 could do with a bit of tlc. Something for next Update absolutely.

[rico21]

Good analysis Paullus [&o]

As we are on sensitive subjects ;
why beta testing has not revealed all this?

[Paullus]

Good question. We simply don't know. They did good work and made many suggestions that Peter and I worked on. And we continue to do so with all your guys thoughts, wishes and suggestions. That's how the game can evolve in a healthy way.

[UP844]

I am sure I have overlooked many issues in the few scenarios I released [:)]

In my opinion, there are still three major bugs requiring attention:

1) AI not firing at long range: I understand that checking LOS at double range may have an impact on game smoothness, but the current situation makes life much easier for the human player: in the 7th Somerset scenario, I overwhelmed the Germans at the North Bridge with fire from most of my squads and MGs at 7 hex range and the Germans replied with the LMG only. After a couple turns, all the Germans were broken and the British encircled and eliminated them.

2) Artillery: if two OBA modules are present, both are associated to the first radio obtaining contact; AI artillery looks more like 21st century artillery (complete with GPS positioning and spotting drones [:D]) than WW2 artillery.

3) AI running to exit hexes (the issue raised in this thread), even though I think it can be somewhat countered by properly placing some VPOs.

[fuselex]

AI not firing at long range - understand where you are coming from ,
A totally out there idea may be to give all the basic units and support weapons the same range?
I find firing at long range is generally something I do in the defensive stage because I need to shoot something .
Firing at long range ( and this is only from my experience ) is an opportunity shot that occasionally gives
results.
If the AI fired at units using long range , I figure a lot of people would push Paullus out of the trench in the hope
of him attracting fire .
Give the different nations the same range and nobody can sit and whittle down the opposition .
Elite units are an exception .
Maybe you have to adjust values for troops , but on the bright side everybody pushes Paullus out of the trench

[UP844]

We are essentially saying the same thing: have the AI and the human player the same opportunities to blast the opponent away. The AI already has its limitations and I do not see any valid reason to add another.

In the very first tutorial, the German player can easily win by moving in the open (with the knowledge the AI won't fire) and then sitting at 5+ hexes while US Airborne squads do not reply at all. SS units will fire at full factor and Fallschirmjager squads will throw in some extra firepower.

In a couple turns, the three US squads will be gone and the German will be able to repeat the sametrick with the rear echelon units: the only fire he will receive will come from the MG... until he manages to silence it.

This can be amusing... for some wannabe Terminator [8|].

P.S. Generally, I fire every time I have a target (you can always get lucky [;)]), unless SW with low breakdown numbers are involved (typically, AT weapons, Russian MGs, or ordnance with limited ammo). I also prefer to perform most of my fires in the Defensive Fire segment: you can fire in both half-turns, but you can only move in yours [:D].