Range of aircraft

jcj · Post by **jcj** » Sat May 31, 2003 5:29 am

The following site has ranges and other stats for most WWII aircraft.

http://lemairesoft.digitalrice.com/schema/8.html

The ranges given are much different then those used in the game. What made me check out the range is the stat on the HE-177. In the game it is 19 wheras a HE111H is 41. Seemed a little strange. The site says a HE-177 has a range of 5000km, but the 111H has no more than a 1500km range depending on the model. Bf-109g's have a range of approximately 700km but in the game they are a 10 while again the HE-177's are a 19. Seems very odd.

Also of interest is the bomb load. In the v.3.3 game I have the load as 125! while the JU-88 is a 44. According to the stats the 88 had a payload of 3000kg while the He-177 had a payload of 6000kg.

Any thoughts?

K62_ · Post by **K62_** » Sat May 31, 2003 6:15 pm

I think it was given the reduced range to simulate the technical breakdowns it was prone to.

Denniss · Post by **Denniss** » Sat May 31, 2003 10:49 pm

The He-177 was known as "Reichsfeuerzeug" as many of them fell out of the sky burning without enemy interdiction

To reflect this issue it's range was reduced but within this range and with high experience it's a deadly plane

jcj · Post by **jcj** » Sun Jun 01, 2003 1:06 am

That may be sensible within the confines of the game, but certainly does not reflect reality. Its prone to blow up, so we'll just fly it within 1000km range and call it fair? The plane was never used in this type of role. The probabilities of engine fire would increase drastically with the stresses of front-line combat. I'm not even sure this plane was capable of using the unimproved landing strips so prevalent in Russia.

In the game the plan becomes a superbomber within short range. The bomb load is far to high. I think the original version of the game had it more correct, although it was a little too low at 1.5 times the JU-88.

alfonso · Post by **alfonso** » Sun Jun 01, 2003 4:14 pm

One can edit all those values to get the stats he likes. When playing PBEM games this issue can be settled between the two players.

Chairman · Post by **Chairman** » Mon Jun 02, 2003 10:48 am

In the game the plan becomes a superbomber within short range. The bomb load is far to high. I think the original version of the game had it more correct, although it was a little too low at 1.5 times the JU-88.

Well if I remember right its bombload were similar to the B17, the Germans used the He 177 as a "glider" when attacking England, it went up to its ceiling and started gliding towards England were it was to fast and generaly to high, but the accuracy of those bombing runs were rather mediocre. That way they had a lot less off "fire coffins" when they were used.

By the way does anyone want to have the antitank version of the He 177:rolleyes: ?

The maximal bombload was: 13.200 Ilbs (About 6000 kg)

How many were built:
8 Prototypes
35 He 177A-0 (Mainly Arado built)
130 He 177A-1 (Arado built)
170 He 177A-3 (Heinkel Built)
826 He 177A-5

jcj · Post by **jcj** » Wed Jun 04, 2003 1:17 am

Right the payload was 6000kg. The payload for the 88 was 3000kg. So the rating in the game should be double the 88? right?

Chairman · Post by **Chairman** » Wed Jun 04, 2003 10:32 am

HMMM that would bee correct, but when I try to get the bombload I get conflikting info.
B17G about 2700-3600 kg
B24J 3600kg
B25J 1800kg
B29 9072kg
B32 9000kg (Only 115 built, before war ended)
Lancaster about 5500 Mk1? - 6350 kg
Whitley V 3175kg
Ju 88 A-1 2000 - 2500kg
Ju 88 A-4 3000kg
Ju 188 Bomber version 3000kg
Do 217E 2700 - 4000kg version K and M gets 2 Hs 293 missils/rockets?
He 111 2000kg

Some of theese numbers are very conflikting so it might bee a problem to get it right.

czerpak · Post by **czerpak** » Wed Jun 04, 2003 4:39 pm

Thats interesting issue.
Myself I prefer to have correct data for equipment in the game, without shortcuts like : " They didnt use He177 as strategic bomber so lets cut its range by half"
This plane COULD be used in such role, so why we ( players) are not allowed to ?
I'd rather have it deleted from the game, than have it with fake data.

RickyB · Post by **RickyB** » Wed Jun 04, 2003 5:57 pm

Arnaud has been the keeper of the plane data from the beginning, so I can't really comment on the data directly. However, he has always based the ratings on hard data, but part of the problem has been the different data sources and what they base their data on. For the bombers especially, you had various bomb loads at different ranges, and different sources would provide a different mix of numbers depending on the ranges used for the bombloads. So he probably had a shorter range bombload for the He177 that he used (presumably because he couldn't find hard data on a longer range bombload), while some other bombers might have been based on a longest range bombload.

A tough call, but I know he hasn't tweaked the numbers purposely to prevent certain mission types. And there are so many other factors that come into play. In the east, the airfields were not very heavily built up and I doubt there were too many places the He177 could even fly from to reach Soviet targets. It required some very large, strong runways unlike most German bombers.

Lienz Cossack · Post by **Lienz Cossack** » Fri Jun 06, 2003 11:06 am

I think the He177 problem is easily sold by giving it a lower durability, much lower than Ju's therefore when they were engaged they would suffer heavier losses to reflect their unreliability.

Dog fighting for a bomber is probably too high too but then I am talking about the Possum 6 version.

Chairman · Post by **Chairman** » Fri Jun 06, 2003 11:24 am

Dog fighting for a bomber is probably too high too but then I am talking about the Possum 6 version.

Hmm, I have read on several places that the B17 had a rather bad placement of it´s guns, if it were all guns or only 1 or 2 that were bad placed I dont know.

About the lower durability it might work, the problem would bee how much to lower it.

Range of aircraft

Range of aircraft

Sensible

load