Taking the Middle East cost me the game (Axis)?

[jpinard]

I was pretty excited when I got Persia and Turkey to join the Axis. I declined Vichy France and then after a long hard slog finally took Egypt and am close to finishing off Baghdad. If you look at the unit loss report you can see I've been slowly hammering away at the British navy and kept mine mostly intact.

However, even though I invested diplomacy chits in the Soviets there was nothing I could do to forestall the Soviets declaring war on me and from my angle it looks really bad. Persia and Turkey feel like more of a liability than a help at this point. Though I've been playing all game with FOW on I turned it off to see just how bad things look and saw Russia has a lot of units ready to drop in which will greatly augment their front-line numerical superiority and will overwhelm all the lines where we're engaged in their favor. The Allies also have a large research advantage in the troops that will be in battle.

I'm curious if anyone sees a path to victory or even survival here or is the game doomed?

Balance-wise as the Axis is spending money on Middle Eastern countries like Persia a waste since it just means more places for the Russia to invade? Keeping Egypt seems challenging since Canada and the U.S. can drop troops there so quickly via the warp gate.

It could be I am just a bad Strategist, but it feels like if you don't invade Russia before this point and you did not perform operation Sea Lion... you have little hope to win (with FOW on). Or maybe there is plenty of good opportunities but I don't see them. The one thing I see that could help would be to invade Russia through Persia/Turkey following the rail lines. I don't think enough German and Italian troops can be transported to the German front to help fast enough. Play with FOW on and feel the anxiety LOL

Extract Russian dominance files into your \\My Games\Staretgic Command\Save\ folder. They are Russia 5 when you load up your game.

[sPzAbt653]

The issue that the Axis run into in the Middle East is that if they move north into Russia, this expands the frontage area that the Axis need to hold, which is a real disadvantage when Russia is actively in the game and Poland/Rumania need to be protected. The ME is full of nice oil though, so it is worth the effort there. I think you have to be ready to go on the defensive against Ivan down there and forget any idea of invading Russia thru the Caucasus [Adm. Raeder thought it was a good idea, though].

The ME is a tough area to operate in due to poor infrastructure and supply. Turkey has a military that needs massive assistance from Germany. I haven't experienced the Western Allies trying to re-enter the area once they are expelled, but if that happens and Russia is also in, I think there is nothing that can be done to hold the area. It seems realistic.

[gwgardner]

Did you receive a large MPP bump by taking the Middle East?

If you've driven out the British from Egypt and Palestine, and have taken Tunisia, Algeria, Morocco, you have a pretty good defensive situation even if the Russkies go in the offensive. The Caucasus and Turkish mountains would be great for defense. It should be a long slog for the Western Allies to take North Africa.

[Ason]

In my first game on beginner I took N.Africa and the middle east then went up to Baku without any problems at all.
I'm now playing on expert +2 exp and I'm doing the same thing. I've conqured Britain and I'm now going into Syria. The advance on the eastern front has suffered because of operation sealion so I'm basically just holding the line from Riga to Odessa waiting for spring/summer of 1942 before I start my big offensive there.
I don't really see why you shouldn't go all the way to Baku. After Egypt there is basically no resistance and you get a ton of MPP's on the way, just ignore Turkey and go to Tehran through Syria and Iraq. If you really get into trouble when you reach the caucasus you can just retreat and enjoy the MPP's while it lasts.

Furthermore if you succeed in caucasus from the south you can link up with army group south and have a much better defensive position at Stalingrad and the volga, basically if you don't go in from the south you will still have the caucasus front on the northern side (Maykop-Grozny) while at the same time defending at Stalingrad.

[sPzAbt653]

I've conqured Britain

I haven't tried this yet because I am scared of having to leave a large garrison in England. How have you handled this ?

[Ason]

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

I've conqured Britain

I haven't tried this yet because I am scared of having to leave a large garrison in England. How have you handled this ?

I have 4 inf corps there (in London,Manchester,Glasgow and one in northern scotland). I also have 1 army 1 corp and 1 para unit in Northern Ireland. I'm going to use them to conquer Ireland because of the US naval bases there.
I'm not worried about an invasion in Britain. If the allies invade I might lose half the Island but I will have time to send units to make the remaining half a very slow meatgrinder. It's basically a great buffer to protect the western front (France).
I'm assuming the AI will invade Britain before France, but if they start with France I can just send my forces in Britain to France and just abandon Britain (It seems to give very little MPP's anyway because of huge partisan disruptions).


Btw I don't know if there is already but, there should be some type of event that has a chance of kicking the US out of Ireland when Britain has fallen imo. My understanding is the Irish didn't like that Britain/US occupied those ports and with the germans at their doorstep I'm sure they would be friendlier to the germans.

Now I have to start a war with Ireland simply because of those occupied ports..

[n0kn0k]

The middle east took ages because of terrible supply(same in northern Russia tbh). I was through Russia before they even managed to link up.
I let Spain take care of western Africa after the africa corps took care of the British in the remaining parts.
If you don't own the sea and the UK, you will get wrecked for sure when the Americans land due to a lack of units.
First time they tried it with me was in 1943 already. Luckily i had a fleet waiting for them. [:D]

[jpinard]

ORIGINAL: Mrslobodan

In my first game on beginner I took N.Africa and the middle east then went up to Baku without any problems at all.
I'm now playing on expert +2 exp and I'm doing the same thing. I've conqured Britain and I'm now going into Syria. The advance on the eastern front has suffered because of operation sealion so I'm basically just holding the line from Riga to Odessa waiting for spring/summer of 1942 before I start my big offensive there.
I don't really see why you shouldn't go all the way to Baku. After Egypt there is basically no resistance and you get a ton of MPP's on the way, just ignore Turkey and go to Tehran through Syria and Iraq. If you really get into trouble when you reach the caucasus you can just retreat and enjoy the MPP's while it lasts.

Furthermore if you succeed in caucasus from the south you can link up with army group south and have a much better defensive position at Stalingrad and the volga, basically if you don't go in from the south you will still have the caucasus front on the northern side (Maykop-Grozny) while at the same time defending at Stalingrad.

Are you playing with FOW off? I don't see how people can win easily at more advanced levels with FOW on. I've put in over 50 hours and even save scumming a bit I'm still right up to my teeth sweating.

[n0kn0k]

ORIGINAL: Mrslobodan

In my first game on beginner I took N.Africa and the middle east then went up to Baku without any problems at all.
I'm now playing on expert +2 exp and I'm doing the same thing. I've conqured Britain and I'm now going into Syria. The advance on the eastern front has suffered because of operation sealion so I'm basically just holding the line from Riga to Odessa waiting for spring/summer of 1942 before I start my big offensive there.
I don't really see why you shouldn't go all the way to Baku. After Egypt there is basically no resistance and you get a ton of MPP's on the way, just ignore Turkey and go to Tehran through Syria and Iraq. If you really get into trouble when you reach the caucasus you can just retreat and enjoy the MPP's while it lasts.

Furthermore if you succeed in caucasus from the south you can link up with army group south and have a much better defensive position at Stalingrad and the volga, basically if you don't go in from the south you will still have the caucasus front on the northern side (Maykop-Grozny) while at the same time defending at Stalingrad.

How are you doing navy wise? You might be sandwiched in 1943 or 1944 if you're not carefull.

[Ason]

ORIGINAL: n0kn0k

ORIGINAL: Mrslobodan

In my first game on beginner I took N.Africa and the middle east then went up to Baku without any problems at all.
I'm now playing on expert +2 exp and I'm doing the same thing. I've conqured Britain and I'm now going into Syria. The advance on the eastern front has suffered because of operation sealion so I'm basically just holding the line from Riga to Odessa waiting for spring/summer of 1942 before I start my big offensive there.
I don't really see why you shouldn't go all the way to Baku. After Egypt there is basically no resistance and you get a ton of MPP's on the way, just ignore Turkey and go to Tehran through Syria and Iraq. If you really get into trouble when you reach the caucasus you can just retreat and enjoy the MPP's while it lasts.

Furthermore if you succeed in caucasus from the south you can link up with army group south and have a much better defensive position at Stalingrad and the volga, basically if you don't go in from the south you will still have the caucasus front on the northern side (Maykop-Grozny) while at the same time defending at Stalingrad.

How are you doing navy wise? You might be sandwiched in 1943 or 1944 if you're not carefull.

I never use my navy, I just let it sit in the port at kiel, best to not give the allies free national morale increases[:D]

But yeah there is a possibility of having a hard time getting out, but worst case I can probably get out to the east and land the units at Wilhelmshaven.

[BillRunacre]

I discovered something yesterday that might be worth doing occasionally: German vessels can Cruise through the Channel at the start of the first turn, before Britain and France enter the war.

It may be useful at times, but it's risky as they then end their turn just to the west of Cornwall or Brittany.