How to kill 5000+ sow planes in turn 1

[schattensand2]

How to kill 5000+ sowjet planes in turn 1 Version 9.00 beta

Setting all normal

I played with 5 % aircraft required to fly and altered the airport bombing to 100/150

To answer simply - use your Ju87 tactical bombers to the limit.
You have to move the bases during turn 1 directly to the borders, from where you reach the possible most sov air bases within 11 hexes.

It needs a kind of choreography. Recon all enemy air bases. Never use any He 111 and Ju 88.

1) Bomb SW Bialystok 49/61 from LW16 42/60 with all Ju87b, fighters and Do17 availible
2) Bomb W Pruzhany 55/66 from LW10 48/72 with Ju87b and fighters
both till empty. One or two attacks will do to emty enemy bases.

Now fight two places directly at the borders free 51/80 in the south and 51/54 in the north
Both are packed with 3 friendly units but you will need that space for your tactical bombers -
so do some ground fighting there now.

3) Move Me110 11LW from 47/72 and Ju 87b from 48/72 to 51/80. From there
4) Bomb the 4 bases Lutsk 57/78, Tarnopol and two E and W Lwow 48/84 and 52/84
all one time and then again till emty or almost empt only with Ju87b and all fighters possible. I could empty all 4 bases without even a single plane leftover.

5) Move Ju 87 16LW from 42/60 to the north 51/54
move 7LW 42/61, 12LW 38/60 and 14LW 39/55 close to or on 51/54
move 13LW from 45/52 and 15LW from 46/53 to 49/50.

6) Bomb Kaunas, Vilnius, E Lida 61/56 from 51/54 and
7) Bomb Siauliai from 49/50
again with all but He111 and Ju88 lev bombers again one time every place and only after that initial first bombing mopping the rest up. Not a single airplane should survive.

You may remove the LWs to their HQ. Even if no more bombing is possible you can still move the bases a second time. Moving in Tac bombers, who do some damage even after turn1, and retreat is a option ingame again.

Romania
8) Bomb from pos 62/104 12Rom 3Army light bombers IAR39 the base 54/91 SE Stanislav 3 times. Then switch to Kishinev as target, where the light bombers from 4th Rom army will join the bombing, till no more bombing is possible. Those Rom Tac Bombers do a considerable damage.
9) Mop up the two places with Rom Cmbt Air Cmd and bomb the two places near Odessa.

So congrats - you have eliminated each and every sov aircraft within 11 hexes of german-sov border and most sov aircraft close to Romanias borders without even using a single He111 or Ju88.

10) Move 19LW from 64/104 to 63/99 and bomb from there E Proskurov 66/88 and Uman 79/92 to have any use from that fighters. This time you need assistance from your He111 btw.

Level Bombing

Bomb preferably bomber bases with single airgroups, be it Kiew or Sewastopol or whatever and watch carefully the Hex range, if you use more than one bomb group for a joint venture. Bomb till all movement is finished.
Check before if not a closer bomber squat from an other area could do the job.
Better bomb more places harder one time than one place several times. Again watch Hex ranges.
Never click on target and bomb with whatever is offered. Always work the other way.
First click your base then the possible victim.

That way you will kill up to 4800 planes at all and 3000 of that kills will be done by Tac bombers alone. One squat may reach over 500 kills. One pilot crew had almost 200 kills by consisting of just 6 planes.

To reach 5000+ you have to do ground combat up to the point where you nearly over run a base and bomb it only just prior. It will need a lot of awareness always switching between ground and air fight. It will give your fighters some kills, training, experience and moral.
It is better to do deliberate attacks to get air force envolved.

I had 5035 kill after my turn 1 and 5200 kills at begin of turn 2. Moral and Xp for all fighting planes were great or even elite.
By all the crazy possibilities the Russian have to produce troups to add to the hundreds they already get you will hardly win a war against Russian players. If they litter the map with 6,5 Mio men end 1941 there is nowin possible. Anyway this is my coin to at least to have a nice and surprising opening.

If I oversaw something please comment.

[zakblood]

screen shot or it didn't happen[8|][;)][:D]

[schattensand2]

That part of using the computer was never mine.
I can make a screenshot. I can open that in word. But I can not transport it from there into this post. Strg V dont work and I can not drag it either. Guess I will find some help the other day.

[zakblood]

print screen then copy into paint, then save as JPG, zip or rar the file up and send to me as you don't have the post count atm to attach to your posts, but not needed tbh, only messing with you[X(][8|][;)][:D]

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: schattensand2

How to kill 5000+ sowjet planes in turn 1 Version 9.00 beta

Setting all normal

I played with 5 % aircraft required to fly and altered the airport bombing to 100/150

To answer simply - use your Ju87 tactical bombers to the limit.
You have to move the bases during turn 1 directly to the borders, from where you reach the possible most sov air bases within 11 hexes.

It needs a kind of choreography. Recon all enemy air bases. Never use any He 111 and Ju 88.

1) Bomb SW Bialystok 49/61 from LW16 42/60 with all Ju87b, fighters and Do17 availible
2) Bomb W Pruzhany 55/66 from LW10 48/72 with Ju87b and fighters
both till empty. One or two attacks will do to emty enemy bases.

Now fight two places directly at the borders free 51/80 in the south and 51/54 in the north
Both are packed with 3 friendly units but you will need that space for your tactical bombers -
so do some ground fighting there now.

3) Move Me110 11LW from 47/72 and Ju 87b from 48/72 to 51/80. From there
4) Bomb the 4 bases Lutsk 57/78, Tarnopol and two E and W Lwow 48/84 and 52/84
all one time and then again till emty or almost empt only with Ju87b and all fighters possible. I could empty all 4 bases without even a single plane leftover.

5) Move Ju 87 16LW from 42/60 to the north 51/54
move 7LW 42/61, 12LW 38/60 and 14LW 39/55 close to or on 51/54
move 13LW from 45/52 and 15LW from 46/53 to 49/50.

6) Bomb Kaunas, Vilnius, E Lida 61/56 from 51/54 and
7) Bomb Siauliai from 49/50
again with all but He111 and Ju88 lev bombers again one time every place and only after that initial first bombing mopping the rest up. Not a single airplane should survive.

You may remove the LWs to their HQ. Even if no more bombing is possible you can still move the bases a second time. Moving in Tac bombers, who do some damage even after turn1, and retreat is a option ingame again.

Romania
8) Bomb from pos 62/104 12Rom 3Army light bombers IAR39 the base 54/91 SE Stanislav 3 times. Then switch to Kishinev as target, where the light bombers from 4th Rom army will join the bombing, till no more bombing is possible. Those Rom Tac Bombers do a considerable damage.
9) Mop up the two places with Rom Cmbt Air Cmd and bomb the two places near Odessa.

So congrats - you have eliminated each and every sov aircraft within 11 hexes of german-sov border and most sov aircraft close to Romanias borders without even using a single He111 or Ju88.

10) Move 19LW from 64/104 to 63/99 and bomb from there E Proskurov 66/88 and Uman 79/92 to have any use from that fighters. This time you need assistance from your He111 btw.

Level Bombing

Bomb preferably bomber bases with single airgroups, be it Kiew or Sewastopol or whatever and watch carefully the Hex range, if you use more than one bomb group for a joint venture. Bomb till all movement is finished.
Check before if not a closer bomber squat from an other area could do the job.
Better bomb more places harder one time than one place several times. Again watch Hex ranges.
Never click on target and bomb with whatever is offered. Always work the other way.
First click your base then the possible victim.

That way you will kill up to 4800 planes at all and 3000 of that kills will be done by Tac bombers alone. One squat may reach over 500 kills. One pilot crew had almost 200 kills by consisting of just 6 planes.

To reach 5000+ you have to do ground combat up to the point where you nearly over run a base and bomb it only just prior. It will need a lot of awareness always switching between ground and air fight. It will give your fighters some kills, training, experience and moral.
It is better to do deliberate attacks to get air force envolved.

I had 5035 kill after my turn 1 and 5200 kills at begin of turn 2. Moral and Xp for all fighting planes were great or even elite.
By all the crazy possibilities the Russian have to produce troups to add to the hundreds they already get you will hardly win a war against Russian players. If they litter the map with 6,5 Mio men end 1941 there is nowin possible. Anyway this is my coin to at least to have a nice and surprising opening.

If I oversaw something please comment.

I believe you bro 5500-6500 is normal for vets

You can do better

[Northern Star]

Grrr... You are giving away my dark secrets!

Anyway it's a good result to destroy 5000+ planes in the first turn... I destroyed with 1.08.08 about 5400 planes on the ground.

[schattensand2]

6500 - honestly? I really like to see that. May be if you do a save again game for the results of the Lev Bombers.

[pbhawkin1]

Well I just did my first ever turn at the campaign and only my 3 game playing and got 4164 destroyed.
I found I run out of the longer range Ju88 and He111 to hit the bases further back (probably because they had been used to attack bases closer) but I struggles trying to get the Ju87s hitting ALL the closer bases.
After the Soviets had done their first turn the number had climbed a bit to 4343.
I am also disappointed a bit that my ground forces didn't destroy more when over running the airfields. I made a purposeful effort to get them and it seemed that I only destroyed a handful (usually <10) each time. Screenshots available but the numbers speak for themselves.
I did manage to get the Lvov and Kovel pockets in the South as well as clear AGS pocket and capture Minsk and in the North got to Riga which was evacuated at the beginning of my turn2.

[schattensand2]

Well I wrote in detail what to do and how to do? It is replayable. And there is the post of Northern Star who shows that there is some more possible too. Aour 4300 is better than what I see in most after battle reports anyway.

[56ajax]

Someone else posted a while ago that just by moving your tactical bombers you can get much better results. Only tried it once and destroyed 4446. Not sure what it means as the Soviets have so many redundant aircraft the losses seem to be quickly covered. What i make sure of doing is to take out as many of the modern airframes as possible, and tactical bombers, because these bombers are the only ones that do you any damage in the early turns.

[Farfarer61]

I don't attack the SOV airbases any more on T1. It may be gamey but the airframe supply system gets so clogged up with all the crap that they all die in the air later rather than on the ground. Plus they demand supply and trucks as they are alive. I did amend this a bit to only kill Sov RECON aircraft on T1. If you have ever played Sov, you know why. Disclosure: I took this idea from a long ago post.

[Icier]

I like the idea...how did it pan out in the long run.

[Aditia]

ORIGINAL: Farfarer

I don't attack the SOV airbases any more on T1. It may be gamey but the airframe supply system gets so clogged up with all the crap that they all die in the air later rather than on the ground. Plus they demand supply and trucks as they are alive. I did amend this a bit to only kill Sov RECON aircraft on T1. If you have ever played Sov, you know why. Disclosure: I took this idea from a long ago post.

That is way too gamey for my taste. You are clogging up a system out of your opponent's control, a system that is designed around losing the western red airforce on the ground on turn 1. If I were the Soviet player in such a game, I would actually be offended..

[Farfarer61]

ORIGINAL: Aditia

ORIGINAL: Farfarer

I don't attack the SOV airbases any more on T1. It may be gamey but the airframe supply system gets so clogged up with all the crap that they all die in the air later rather than on the ground. Plus they demand supply and trucks as they are alive. I did amend this a bit to only kill Sov RECON aircraft on T1. If you have ever played Sov, you know why. Disclosure: I took this idea from a long ago post.

That is way too gamey for my taste. You are clogging up a system out of your opponent's control, a system that is designed around losing the western red airforce on the ground on turn 1. If I were the Soviet player in such a game, I would actually be offended..

Well, what if I said that one Turn One, I use all my tactical aircraft for ground support, all my fighters for Escort and Interdiction, and all my bombers to airlift fuel and supplies, leaving none left over for airfield attacks ? Does that have a better ring ?

[Icier]

ORIGINAL: Farfarer

I don't attack the SOV airbases any more on T1. It may be gamey but the airframe supply system gets so clogged up with all the crap that they all die in the air later rather than on the ground. Plus they demand supply and trucks as they are alive. I did amend this a bit to only kill Sov RECON aircraft on T1. If you have ever played Sov, you know why. Disclosure: I took this idea from a long ago post.

Have you tried this against a live opponent or against A1?
What rules (patch) are you using?

[Farfarer61]

Both and latest, but humans will selectively upgrade, and change their normal Sov play to send hordes of surprisingly-not-dead aircraft in battle, notwithstanding that much of their ineffectiveness is apparently hard coded, and just happens. Against the AI I play against a Sov with 125% in all stats.

Try it out and see if it works for you. It makes turn 1 for the Axis quicker if nothing else

[Icier]

will do & thanks...mind you what you say should hold for anytime in the game.

[56ajax]

Well I have tried this about 5 or 6 times and so far have made it only into the 4000s. Only once have I cleaned out airbases after only 2 bombings.

Then again I am using 1.08.09 beta and now that i look at it perhaps I should try it on the same scenario of your screen shot.

Rumania.

I have a variation here. I rationalise the Rum airbases and use Air Transfer. For example, I empty 15 Rum airbase, move it to 61/97 and then air transfer in Tac Bombers. From here I can hit Tarnopol, Proskhurov and Stanislav. I use a similar method opposite Kishniev.

Air transfer gives travel of only 1% whereas moving an airbase with planes increases travel much more. The down side is that your airbase may run out of ammo.

In the end I have 4 empty Rum airbases which can be disbanded (1 Admin point each) if required and the Rum Tac bombers have destroyed 5 Soviet airbases.