Rumble in the Southwest witpqs-A vs Andav-J 2011-11-29 to 2017-02-08

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Wargmr

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: Wargmr

It really depends upon the amount of troops in the bases on the east coast of China like Tinian, Suchow, Haichow, Tsingtao, etc. If one is relatively light and bombers are within range they can make a real mess of troops to be followed on with paratroops.

It is already mid march so you got a little more than 120 days before activation. Just getting to Tientsin will take 2 weeks to 30 days. Once there you face a dilemma about how to take either Peiping or Tientsin in heavy urban terrain or not have a supply line. From there it is more than 2 weeks to the border of Korea just marching. So you are at 2-3 months already.

If you managed to take Tsingtao or the base to the east of there you might be able to make a staging area for an assault on Chinnampo or the base to the southwest.

Again, I have not been following the AAR closely and have no idea about force distributions. A direct assault on the beaches of Korea or a supported assault from one of the bases on the west coast of the yellow sea would likely be faster but obviously face more risk. It also depends upon how many carrier assets you have and whether you can divert some for protection of surface fleets.

If you do take something on the coast of Korea he still has to try to take it back, possibly resulting in the results you want.

I think most (all?) of the carriers will be busy covering the additional invasions of the Home Islands. I don't know the required Japanese garrison of Tientsin so I'm not sure what might be there, but I think it might be modest. Yeah, land travel time is a looming obstacle now. Damned laws of physics.

OK. Maybe "stick with plan A" and use the Allied forces in China to reinforce one or more of the Home Island invasions.

The fastest way to win the game still seems to be getting bombers into position and then sacking the home islands rather than invasion. Maybe I will try that sometime :]

No way! witpqs has made a commitment to clear the map's complexion of those ugly red blemishes and we will insist on that! [:)]

[witpqs]

I do plan to send Allied armoured car units to help Chinese infantry clear western China. [:)]

[witpqs]

No turn today so can answer any questions you have.

[witpqs]

1945 March 10

The Empire captured:


The Allies captured:
Damar is occupied by the Allies

There were Imperial amphibious or airborne operations at:


There were Allied amphibious or airborne operations at:


Imperial Naval Bombardments


Allied Naval Bombardments:
Allied Ships Bombarding enemy troops at Baybay
Allied Ships Bombarding Hachinohe


Our subs are conducting secret activities.

A bully!

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Night Time Surface Combat, near Ningpo at 92,56, Range 2,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
DD Ariake

Allied Ships
PT-183
PT-184
PT-185
PT-186
PT-187
PT-189
PT-190
PT-191
PT-196
PT-219
PT-220, Shell hits 3, and is sunk

Reduced sighting due to 10% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Overcast Conditions and 10% moonlight: 2,000 yards
Range closes to 24,000 yards...
Range closes to 18,000 yards...
Range closes to 12,000 yards...
Range closes to 8,000 yards...
Range closes to 6,000 yards...
Range closes to 4,000 yards...
Range closes to 2,000 yards...
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 2,000 yards
CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 2,000 yards
Massive explosion on PT-220
PT-220 sunk by DD Ariake at 2,000 yards
Range increases to 5,000 yards
DD Ariake engages PT-219 at 5,000 yards
DD Ariake engages PT-219 at 5,000 yards
Range increases to 6,000 yards
Range increases to 7,000 yards
DD Ariake engages PT-219 at 7,000 yards
Range increases to 9,000 yards
DD Ariake engages PT-196 at 9,000 yards
Task forces break off...


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Valiant anti-piracy enforcers!

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Day Time Surface Combat, near Rashin at 109,48, Range 18,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
PB Shintohoku Maru, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
PB Toshi Maru #7, Shell hits 3, and is sunk
PB Kyo Maru #2, Shell hits 3, and is sunk
PB Kyo Maru #11, Shell hits 5, and is sunk

Allied Ships
CL Cleveland
DD Schroeder
DD Paoshan
CL Kalao

Maximum visibility in Overcast Conditions: 20,000 yards
Range closes to 24,000 yards...
Range closes to 18,000 yards...
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 18,000 yards
CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 18,000 yards
Train, H.C. crosses the 'T'
PB Kyo Maru #11 sunk by CL Kalao at 18,000 yards
PB Toshi Maru #7 sunk by CL Kalao at 18,000 yards
PB Shintohoku Maru sunk by CL Kalao at 18,000 yards
Range closes to 13,000 yards
Range closes to 12,000 yards
PB Kyo Maru #2 sunk by CL Kalao at 12,000 yards
Combat ends with last Japanese ship sunk...


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Day Time Surface Combat, near Rashin at 109,48, Range 20,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
xAK Nagagawa Maru, Shell hits 18, and is sunk

Allied Ships
CL Cleveland
DD Schroeder
DD Paoshan
CL Kalao

Maximum visibility in Overcast Conditions: 20,000 yards
Range closes to 28,000 yards...
Range closes to 26,000 yards...
Range closes to 24,000 yards...
Range closes to 22,000 yards...
Range closes to 20,000 yards...
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 20,000 yards
CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 20,000 yards
Train, H.C. crosses the 'T'
Range closes to 18,000 yards
CL Cleveland engages xAK Nagagawa Maru at 18,000 yards
DD Paoshan engages xAK Nagagawa Maru at 18,000 yards
Range closes to 16,000 yards
CL Kalao engages xAK Nagagawa Maru at 16,000 yards
CL Cleveland engages xAK Nagagawa Maru at 16,000 yards
DD Paoshan engages xAK Nagagawa Maru at 16,000 yards
Range closes to 14,000 yards
CL Cleveland engages xAK Nagagawa Maru at 14,000 yards
DD Schroeder engages xAK Nagagawa Maru at 14,000 yards
Range closes to 11,000 yards
CL Kalao engages xAK Nagagawa Maru at 11,000 yards
CL Cleveland engages xAK Nagagawa Maru at 11,000 yards
DD Paoshan engages xAK Nagagawa Maru at 11,000 yards
DD Schroeder engages xAK Nagagawa Maru at 11,000 yards
Range closes to 9,000 yards
DD Paoshan engages xAK Nagagawa Maru at 9,000 yards
DD Paoshan engages xAK Nagagawa Maru at 9,000 yards
xAK Nagagawa Maru sunk by CL Kalao at 9,000 yards
Combat ends with last Japanese ship sunk...


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Grinding away in China.

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Ground combat at Tungchow (92,53)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 708 troops, 3 guns, 132 vehicles, Assault Value = 74

Defending force 2573 troops, 26 guns, 2 vehicles, Assault Value = 72

Allied adjusted assault: 32

Japanese adjusted defense: 43

Allied assault odds: 1 to 2 (fort level 1)

Combat modifiers
Defender: preparation(-), experience(-)
Attacker: leaders(-)

Japanese ground losses:
150 casualties reported
Squads: 6 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 8 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Guns lost 5 (1 destroyed, 4 disabled)

Assaulting units:
192nd Tank Battalion

Defending units:
Yangtze SNLF
19th RGC Temp. Division


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Ground combat at 74,41 (near Chengtu)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 12328 troops, 20 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 518

Defending force 1965 troops, 8 guns, 3 vehicles, Assault Value = 6

Allied adjusted assault: 145

Japanese adjusted defense: 3

Allied assault odds: 48 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), disruption(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
197 casualties reported
Squads: 25 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Guns lost 1 (1 destroyed, 0 disabled)

Assaulting units:
20th Chinese Corps
70th Chinese/C Corps
23rd Group Army
6th War Area
X' Force
29th Group Army

Defending units:
RGC Capital Brigade


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Our armor at Tungchow will get some assistance on the ground (they already have air support). Those particular zombies near Chengtu are fading faster now.

There is rejoicing among the Imperial ranks in rubble of Cagayan.

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Ground combat at Cagayan (79,89)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 20157 troops, 234 guns, 102 vehicles, Assault Value = 657

Defending force 8424 troops, 55 guns, 1 vehicles, Assault Value = 200

Allied adjusted assault: 248

Japanese adjusted defense: 147

Allied assault odds: 1 to 1 (fort level 4)

Allied Assault reduces fortifications to 3

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), leaders(-), morale(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
830 casualties reported
Squads: 7 destroyed, 55 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 13 disabled
Engineers: 3 destroyed, 8 disabled
Guns lost 10 (2 destroyed, 8 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
1750 casualties reported
Squads: 6 destroyed, 175 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 12 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 5 disabled
Guns lost 21 (2 destroyed, 19 disabled)

Assaulting units:
24th (Sep) Infantry Regiment
158th(Sep) Infantry Regiment
31st Infantry Regiment
15th NZ Brigade
8th NZ Brigade

Defending units:
Maizuru 1st SNLF
20th Infantry Regiment
12th Engineer Regiment
16th Naval Guard Unit
2nd South Seas Det. /1
23rd Air Flotilla
51st JNAF AF Unit


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Ground combat at Baybay (81,86)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 1935 troops, 4 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 109

Defending force 1054 troops, 2 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 18

Allied adjusted assault: 96

Japanese adjusted defense: 1

Allied assault odds: 96 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), leaders(-), disruption(-)
preparation(-), morale(-), supply(-)
Attacker: leaders(+)

Japanese ground losses:
224 casualties reported
Squads: 5 destroyed, 13 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Assaulting units:
3rd Commando Brigade

Defending units:
II./4th Infantry Battalion


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The naval bombardment at Baybay might have helped us there. More bombers will target defenders at Cagayan where I am sure the Empire's celebration will be short lived.

A good number of Light Industry and Heavy Industry hits were made by 4EB at Shanghai. That targeting will continue, as will the others (none of which flew today).

China west.

[witpqs]

China east.

[witpqs]

Philippines.

[witpqs]

Home Islands west.

[witpqs]

Home Islands east.

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

No turn today so can answer any questions you have.

Has there been anything that you've came across that you've found has caused you unneeded delay between operations?

What Japanese moves have there been that have thrown your timetable off?

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

ORIGINAL: witpqs

No turn today so can answer any questions you have.

Has there been anything that you've came across that you've found has caused you unneeded delay between operations?

Sometimes I have flubbed the logistics a bit and had to wait a bit or, more so, been later than need be on getting the followup troops in after a capture.

Also, the planning itself to some extent because of the unit preparation time needed. Some changes in plans due to the situation being different than anticipated.

What Japanese moves have there been that have thrown your timetable off?

I'm gonna have to think on this one. We've been playing almost 5 years!

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

ORIGINAL: witpqs

No turn today so can answer any questions you have.

Has there been anything that you've came across that you've found has caused you unneeded delay between operations?

Sometimes I have flubbed the logistics a bit and had to wait a bit or, more so, been later than need be on getting the followup troops in after a capture.

Also, the planning itself to some extent because of the unit preparation time needed. Some changes in plans due to the situation being different than anticipated.

What Japanese moves have there been that have thrown your timetable off?

I'm gonna have to think on this one. We've been playing almost 5 years!

In my campaigns, my biggest mistake has been sending too few assets to do the job. Thus turning what should have been a quick operations into a long term slugging match. I should follow Canoerebel's tactics and learn to send everything and the kitchen sink in. But he is much more organized than me. I tend to be more of a seat of the pants guy.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: crsutton


In my campaigns, my biggest mistake has been sending too few assets to do the job. Thus turning what should have been a quick operations into a long term slugging match. I should follow Canoerebel's tactics and learn to send everything and the kitchen sink in. But he is much more organized than me. I tend to be more of a seat of the pants guy.

A sort-of example of that in this game was Truk. Somewhat different because it was a matter of learning how to conduct that kind of assault in this game.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

What Japanese moves have there been that have thrown your timetable off?

I'm gonna have to think on this one. We've been playing almost 5 years!

Walter is like a bear - he just keeps on coming at you! Early in Burma I had some good success (relatively speaking) with delaying actions that dealt out some punishment to Imperial forces. I was very sure that I could extricate the British units in question. While they did get out, they also got mauled when they were caught by heavy Imperial forces, which I thought couldn't be done. This caused delays because of the paucity of British squad replacements, plus the reduction in the quality of the units.

Other times in Burma, He managed to stem my advance when I thought we could break through. This has also happened in China. I can't give real specifics, though I suppose some/many are in the AAR (hey, it's not even 4,900 posts yet - easy reading! [:D]).

There was the obvious boomerang to one period of Imperial success in Burma. First, the Invasions just past Rangoon (I think Pegu and Moulmein) caught the Empire more flatfooted than I anticipated. Then the invasion at Cam Ranh Bay was able to trap huge numbers of very highly skilled units for eventual destruction (largely because the prior invasion blocked their movement and they couldn't respond to Cam Ranh Bay). I planned on and anticipated Cam Ranh Bay being an enclave to enforce a hotly contested sea blockade, but the results went far beyond that due to the heavy forward leaning of the Empire's ground forces and catching their fleet in the Indian Ocean at just the right time.

I think there were a couple of invasions where I was surprised by how many troops were airlifted in to aid the defense and that caused delays.

I know there are more.

[jmalter]

ORIGINAL: witpqs
No turn today so can answer any questions you have.

Do you spend PP to change a base-hex command? I often do this to allow perm-restricted airgroups to evacuate/advance. Also, I gather there's some advantage if a base's airgroups are subordinate to the base's command.

Does this idea conflict w/ any of your game's HR?

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: jmalter

ORIGINAL: witpqs
No turn today so can answer any questions you have.

Do you spend PP to change a base-hex command? I often do this to allow perm-restricted airgroups to evacuate/advance. Also, I gather there's some advantage if a base's airgroups are subordinate to the base's command.

Almost never. Did in some long, long ago game(s) against the AI. I am pretty sure I did not do it in this game.

Does this idea conflict w/ any of your game's HR?

I suppose it would depend on the specific instance. I am not in favor of doing it because it doesn't comport with the flavor I want for the game. Now, many times due to the way a base is captured (by the Allies, at least) the base will wind up getting some HQ assignment that is wacky. Like liberated cities in China being owned by US, UK, etc. and most Chinese Army units cannot be airlifted in because they are restricted. Changing in those situations makes sense. The changes in the DEI/NW Australia to allow evacuation of units that could not otherwise do so does not make sense to me.

These are game flavor preference items and I have not the slightest objection to players who make different choices in their game.

[witpqs]

1945 March 11

The Empire captured:


The Allies captured:
Kaoping is occupied by the Allies

There were Imperial amphibious or airborne operations at:


There were Allied amphibious or airborne operations at:


Imperial Naval Bombardments


Allied Naval Bombardments:
Allied Ships Bombarding enemy troops at Guiuan


Our subs are conducting secret activities.

This time 3x E attacked our PT boats at Ningpo, hitting and sinking one. We have a pair of DD tasked for Ningpo about 3 days out.

Our fighters swept Hiroshima/Kure and did well, but they encountered far less than the ~225 or more fighters that recon shows stationed there. What gives? Kamikazes? Held on the ground until DAW HQ figures that bombers are on the way? Or most fighters flying CAP at a very low altitude? The second and third possibilities seem most likely. Only thing I can do about the second is send bombers. The third I might be able to work out with a two-layer sweep, P-47 groups at max and P-51 groups at 20,000 ft.

Good progress on the ground in China.

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Ground combat at Kaifeng (89,44)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 7201 troops, 77 guns, 545 vehicles, Assault Value = 400

Defending force 3168 troops, 39 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 107

Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 2

Allied adjusted assault: 187

Japanese adjusted defense: 89

Allied assault odds: 2 to 1 (fort level 2)

Allied Assault reduces fortifications to 2

Combat modifiers
Defender: forts(+), preparation(-), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
546 casualties reported
Squads: 8 destroyed, 74 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 7 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Allied ground losses:
73 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 10 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled

Assaulting units:
254th Armoured Brigade
150th RAC Regiment
268th Motorised Brigade

Defending units:
16th RGC Temp. Division
17th RGC Temp. Division
91st Field AA Battalion


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Ground combat at 74,41 (near Chengtu)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 12335 troops, 20 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 519

Defending force 1748 troops, 7 guns, 3 vehicles, Assault Value = 3

Allied adjusted assault: 292

Japanese adjusted defense: 1

Allied assault odds: 292 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), disruption(-), fatigue(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
1835 casualties reported
Squads: 63 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 142 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 8 (8 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Vehicles lost 4 (4 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units destroyed 1

Assaulting units:
20th Chinese Corps
70th Chinese/C Corps
6th War Area
X' Force
23rd Group Army
29th Group Army

Defending units:
RGC Capital Brigade


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The assault begins at Chengtu tomorrow.

Air losses.

[witpqs]

China west.

[witpqs]

China east. Those nasty E types that attacked out PT boats at Ningpo are visible making their way north.

[witpqs]

Philippines.

[witpqs]

Home Islands west.