Rumble in the Southwest witpqs-A vs Andav-J 2011-11-29 to 2017-02-08

[witpqs]

Home Islands east.

[Drakanel]

It will be interesting to see how much time it takes to get Chengtu. Likely a couple of weeks at least?

Also, how fast do chinese units respawn once you take it? All of them immediately? In chunks, every x days or so?

[Mike McCreery]

ORIGINAL: Drakanel

It will be interesting to see how much time it takes to get Chengtu. Likely a couple of weeks at least?

Also, how fast do chinese units respawn once you take it? All of them immediately? In chunks, every x days or so?

In chunks every day for about a week.

[witpqs]

My thinking has been that it might take a week or up to two weeks to capture Chengtu based on the fact that supply to that city has been almost completely cut off for a while now.

They recon as 8 units, 43,400 troops, 205 guns, and 22 AFV. We have an actual list of the units from an earlier combat where we crossed the river to lock out an additional ~30,000 troops from reaching Chengtu, but I'm not sure how many pages back it is.

This is what we have there (with HQs hidden to make room). I think we'll take it down quickly.

[witpqs]

Chungking might take some serious time. I expect greater fortification, they still have some supply generation, 50 to 75% more troops, and I bet the better quality troops went there. We are beginning the final phase of completely surrounding the base to prevent possibility of retreat once the assault begins, although for quite some time Chungking has been well out of maximum supply range of external sources. I have some big units preparing for Chungking but I will still wait for the 3 Allied divisions at Chengtu to be freed up because they have more and better heavy weapons and artillery, plus their squads are much better equipped to overcome fortifications.

[witpqs]

1945 March 12

The Empire captured:


The Allies captured:
Allied forces CAPTURE Kaifeng !!!

There were Imperial amphibious or airborne operations at:


There were Allied amphibious or airborne operations at:
Selaroe
Groote Eylandt

Imperial Naval Bombardments


Allied Naval Bombardments:
Allied Ships Bombarding enemy troops at Guiuan


Our subs are conducting secret activities.

The battle at Chengtu today went even better than the combat report indicates.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Chengtu (75,41)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 139687 troops, 1005 guns, 441 vehicles, Assault Value = 3386

Defending force 32098 troops, 206 guns, 21 vehicles, Assault Value = 993

Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 3

Allied adjusted assault: 4601

Japanese adjusted defense: 3411

Allied assault odds: 1 to 1 (fort level 3)

Allied Assault reduces fortifications to 3

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
5600 casualties reported
Squads: 97 destroyed, 194 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 62 disabled
Engineers: 5 destroyed, 13 disabled
Guns lost 32 (6 destroyed, 26 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
5998 casualties reported
Squads: 24 destroyed, 297 disabled
Non Combat: 3 destroyed, 69 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 38 disabled
Guns lost 29 (2 destroyed, 27 disabled)

Assaulting units:
49th Chinese Corps
35th Chinese Corps
14th Chinese Corps
120th Red Chinese Division
63rd Chinese Corps
23rd Indian Division
54th Chinese Corps
11th (East African) Division
6th Australian Division
76th Chinese Corps
95th Chinese Corps
6th Mixed A/T Mtr Regiment
1st Group Army
26th Group Army
11th Group Army
7th War Area
NCAC
272/273rd Bty 80th AT Gun Regiment
22nd Artillery Regiment

Defending units:
2nd Ind.Mixed Regiment
13th RGC Temp. Division
1st Ind.Mixed Brigade
15th RGC Temp. Division
Kanno
55th Infantry Brigade
8th Ind.Mixed Brigade
36th/B Division


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Kaifeng (89,44)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 7153 troops, 77 guns, 545 vehicles, Assault Value = 392

Defending force 2436 troops, 39 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 21

Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 1

Allied adjusted assault: 249

Japanese adjusted defense: 8

Allied assault odds: 31 to 1 (fort level 1)

Allied forces CAPTURE Kaifeng !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: forts(+), preparation(-), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
1183 casualties reported
Squads: 61 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 28 destroyed, 16 disabled
Engineers: 8 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 38 (36 destroyed, 2 disabled)
Units retreated 3

Defeated Japanese Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
150th RAC Regiment
254th Armoured Brigade
268th Motorised Brigade

Defending units:
16th RGC Temp. Division
17th RGC Temp. Division
91st Field AA Battalion


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

One unit has high disruption and will rest, the rest are single digits and one with 11 and will continue the attack. AV attacking will be about 900 less than yesterday (520 in the resting unit) but pressing the defenders without giving them any rest from ground attack should more than compensate. Kaifeng now has Allied aircraft and air support is being flown in.

No strategic strikes flew today with foul weather all over. Rain forecast tomorrow.

China west.

[witpqs]

China east.

[witpqs]

Philippines.

[witpqs]

Home Islands west.

[witpqs]

Home Islands east.

[witpqs]

1945 March 13

The Empire captured:


The Allies captured:
Vigan is occupied by the Allies
Allied forces CAPTURE Chengtu !!!
Allied forces CAPTURE Selaroe !!!

There were Imperial amphibious or airborne operations at:


There were Allied amphibious or airborne operations at:


Imperial Naval Bombardments


Allied Naval Bombardments:
Allied Ships Bombarding enemy troops at Baybay


Our subs are conducting secret activities.

Peaceful anti-piracy patrols were savaged.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 558 encounters mine field at 118,53

Allied Ships
DD Meredith
DD Lardner, Mine hits 1, heavy damage

1 mine cleared


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 151 encounters mine field at 118,53

Allied Ships
DE Elden, Mine hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DE Engstrom, Mine hits 1, heavy damage

2 mines cleared


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Two are sunk, one more will sink tomorrow. Our own RN subs are two or three days away from laying 374 mines at Fusan. We have other British subs tasked to lay mines nearby, but the USN subs are out of the mine game. In this (old) version of Babes, the USN subs do not upgrade to the newer mine types being produced and all of the old ones they use are gone.


Chengtu is liberated!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Chengtu (75,41)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 117397 troops, 981 guns, 441 vehicles, Assault Value = 3168

Defending force 27695 troops, 198 guns, 21 vehicles, Assault Value = 597

Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 2

Allied adjusted assault: 3075

Japanese adjusted defense: 601

Allied assault odds: 5 to 1 (fort level 2)

Allied forces CAPTURE Chengtu !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
5718 casualties reported
Squads: 101 destroyed, 324 disabled
Non Combat: 6 destroyed, 63 disabled
Engineers: 31 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 128 (91 destroyed, 37 disabled)
Vehicles lost 18 (17 destroyed, 1 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
2734 casualties reported
Squads: 14 destroyed, 357 disabled
Non Combat: 4 destroyed, 56 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 32 disabled

Assaulting units:
35th Chinese Corps
76th Chinese Corps
120th Red Chinese Division
6th Australian Division
95th Chinese Corps
54th Chinese Corps
63rd Chinese Corps
14th Chinese Corps
23rd Indian Division
49th Chinese Corps
11th (East African) Division
70th Chinese/C Corps
NCAC
1st Group Army
7th War Area
6th Mixed A/T Mtr Regiment
272/273rd Bty 80th AT Gun Regiment
26th Group Army
11th Group Army
22nd Artillery Regiment

Defending units:
1st Ind.Mixed Brigade
55th Infantry Brigade
8th Ind.Mixed Brigade
2nd Ind.Mixed Regiment
15th RGC Temp. Division
Kanno
36th/B Division
13th RGC Temp. Division


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And much faster than I anticipated...

9th Chinese Corps arrives at Chengtu
13th Chinese Corps arrives at Chengtu
23rd Chinese Corps arrives at Chengtu
28th Chinese Corps arrives at Chengtu
29th Chinese Corps arrives at Chengtu
33rd Chinese Corps arrives at Chengtu
38th Chinese Corps arrives at Chengtu
51st Chinese Corps arrives at Chengtu
57th Chinese Corps arrives at Chengtu
60th Chinese Corps arrives at Chengtu
66th Chinese Corps Corps arrives at Chengtu
129th Red Chinese Division arrives at Chengtu
79th Chinese Corps arrives at Chengtu
80th Chinese Corps arrives at Chengtu
98th Chinese Corps arrives at Chengtu
8th War Area arrives at Chengtu
24th Group Army arrives at Chengtu
30th Group Army arrives at Chengtu
31st Group Army arrives at Chengtu
1st Chinese Cavalry Corps arrives at Chengtu
49th Chinese Division arrives at Chengtu
93rd Chinese arrives at Chengtu
303rd Brigade arrives at Chengtu
9th Separate Brigade arrives at Chengtu
11th Construction Regiment arrives at Chengtu
5th Construction Regiment arrives at Chengtu
7th Artillery Regiment arrives at Chengtu
41st AA Regiment arrives at Chengtu
7th Chinese Base Force arrives at Chengtu
10th Chinese Base Force arrives at Chengtu
20th Chinese Base Force arrives at Chengtu

I thought there would be a 30 day delay before they began arriving in small groups as was recently discussed. I failed to realize that 'starting right away' was meant! Due to the dam burst of released troops, we now have a serious over stacking problem in Chengtu and will cease attacks until that is relieved, which is a pity because with supply we could eliminate the remaining defenders rather quickly. All the released units are heading for nearby bases to upgrade from '43 squads to '45 squads, which also means that almost all units that already have '45 squads now must turn off replacements to make sure we can upgrade as rapidly as possible. While they will take time to march and are sorely lacking in heavy weapons, we now have enough manpower to overwhelm the invaders in the rest of China.

Pressing in the Philippines.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Baybay (81,86)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 1935 troops, 4 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 109

Defending force 822 troops, 2 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 3

Allied adjusted assault: 99

Japanese adjusted defense: 1

Allied assault odds: 99 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), leaders(-), disruption(-)
preparation(-), fatigue(-), morale(-), supply(-)
Attacker: leaders(+)

Japanese ground losses:
724 casualties reported
Squads: 40 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 56 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 2 (2 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units destroyed 1

Assaulting units:
3rd Commando Brigade

Defending units:
II./4th Infantry Battalion


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Guiuan (82,85)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 1255 troops, 17 guns, 11 vehicles, Assault Value = 42

Defending force 1027 troops, 8 guns, 1 vehicles, Assault Value = 13

Allied adjusted assault: 17

Japanese adjusted defense: 5

Allied assault odds: 3 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(-), preparation(-), morale(-)
experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker: leaders(-)

Japanese ground losses:
25 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Allied ground losses:
8 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Assaulting units:
NG Vol Rifles Battalion

Defending units:
2nd Indpt SNLF Coy
79th JAAF AF Bn


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Baybay is secured.

The results at Wakkanai suggest that city will be ours tomorrow.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Wakkanai (122,48)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 28206 troops, 426 guns, 492 vehicles, Assault Value = 949

Defending force 13111 troops, 96 guns, 52 vehicles, Assault Value = 245

Allied adjusted assault: 625

Japanese adjusted defense: 257

Allied assault odds: 2 to 1 (fort level 4)

Allied Assault reduces fortifications to 3

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
2050 casualties reported
Squads: 10 destroyed, 102 disabled
Non Combat: 5 destroyed, 62 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 7 disabled
Guns lost 18 (3 destroyed, 15 disabled)
Vehicles lost 5 (1 destroyed, 4 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
332 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 37 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 7 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Guns lost 6 (1 destroyed, 5 disabled)

Assaulting units:
2nd Arm Amphib Battalion
3rd Marine Division
3rd USMC Tank Battalion
6th Marine Division
4th USMC Tank Battalion
5th USMC Field Artillery Battalion
8th USMC Field Artillery Battalion
3rd USMC Field Artillery Battalion
9th USMC Field Artillery Battalion
6th USMC Field Artillery Battalion
12th USMC Field Artillery Battalion

Defending units:
4th Amphibious Brigade
Soya Fortress
77th/C Division
73rd JAAF AF Bn
27th Air Flotilla
63rd JAAF AF Bn
49th JAAF AF Bn
5th Area Army
27th JNAF AF Unit
7th/B Division


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A number of Light and Heavy Industry hits were had against strategic targets, including Shanghai. The B-29 groups are beginning to take ops losses and so are standing down for their usual month-long sabbatical.

China west.

[witpqs]

China east.

[witpqs]

Philippines.

[witpqs]

Home Islands west.

[witpqs]

Home Islands east.

[jwolf]

That was fast in Chengtu! Maybe with the newly liberated Chinese forces soon to take control of much of China, you will have more freedom to send US and/or British units into Manchuria for your early Soviet activation scheme. [8D]

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: jwolf

That was fast in Chengtu! Maybe with the newly liberated Chinese forces soon to take control of much of China, you will have more freedom to send US and/or British units into Manchuria for your early Soviet activation scheme. [8D]

That was fast! I had just assumed that the advice given about it was prefixed with "30 day delay", but obviously not.

I think the observation about the marching time and all still holds (Chinese Army units without much for heavy weapons could not take the various urban bastions alone), so the Allied units in China now will go into the Home Islands. Whatever invasion gets held up the least - or if I am lucky breaks through - will get massive reinforcements, Soviet style! That will be my own version of early Soviet activation. [:D]

[Macclan5]

Perhaps you can minimize marching time ?

I mean / infer that collecting all Allied troops in China in Hong Kong. Good Harbor - good supply point - minimal chance to over stack. Lots of units should be able to "rail in".

From Hong Kong the Allied troops are : 1) a threat to home island invasion 2) a threat to Korean peninsula invasion 3) a threat to amphib leapfrog to Tsingtao and therefore launch the Manchurian invasion on a single deep thrust such as when you broke out from CRBay back in 1944.

--

Allow the Chinese with "delayed upgrades or even no upgrades" to march into all those base requiring garrisons.

A human shield.

There are simply so many (plus more coming) you should be able to garrison and "stack a front line" Nanyang / Singyang / Angking / Nanking / Shanghai (??). Eventually with HQs and supply they can upgrade slowly.

I suppose there may be the need for a "few premium advisor" units to support the screen..

But it may give you the most flexibility around target selection given you have discussed the pros and cons all 3 options. Home Island / Korea / Manchuria

[jwolf]

From Hong Kong the Allied troops are : 1) a threat to home island invasion 2) a threat to Korean peninsula invasion 3) a threat to amphib leapfrog to Tsingtao and therefore launch the Manchurian invasion on a single deep thrust such as when you broke out from CRBay back in 1944.

This looks like a good plan, though at this point I don't think the Japanese can effectively transfer troops to any perceived threatened location. So there isn't any need for any sort of misdirection, but still the facilities at HK should give the Allies the most flexibility as witpqs considers different options.

[witpqs]

Trying to respond without quoting (might miss something)...

Have already used a lot of '43 squad units for garrison. Still using some for attack, too. Will try to get everybody (except withdrawals out of theater) up to '45 squads. I have ~300 '45 squads in the pool, so big units or 1/3s of units can go one per turn, small units more than one. Releasing them to march that way is OK anyway because of stacking limits. Supply is better in China than it has ever been but could still be burned up if I forget about stacking.

Many of the cities you mention for a front are either already garrisoned by Chinese Army units or they are well on the way, but the front is already past there! One thing I did not do is look at the ground reinforcements schedule to see how many units are coming at me. Too much to contemplate in one turn. [:D]

I'm going to avoid any place where troops currently in China would need to prepare to land because that would just take too long or they would be trashed on landing. With 4 separate points of entry to the remaining Home Islands finding a captured port to bring them in should not pose a problem. Essentially, this is the same thing that Macclan5 is suggesting, but without a separate amphibious landing. Of course the big difference is "Target: Home Isands" rather than Manchuria or Korea. And I might not use Hong Kong as the exit port because it's pretty far behind the front now.

Whether there is time for the Allied armor/armour to assist the Chinese Army in pushing to the Manchuria border remains to be seen.

BTW, still have 745,000 supply in Singapore with no air or LCU present and no ships home ported or in port there. After it's had a full week (to make sure one 'long' supply pull cycle has passed), I'll take steps to try and get it moving.