unsunkable transports

[Jaimainsoyyo]

It´s a lot easier to sunk a BB or a CV than an amphibious unit due to the last one uses to avoid damage very often.

[Ostwindflak]

I found the Canadian I Corps embarked on transport ships and hit it with 2 subs. The first sub scored a hit and reduced the transport from 10 down to 4. The second sub attacked and the transport evaded damage. Next turn I couldn't find the transport again. [:(] I don't know how many times you attacked your amphib, but I chalked mine up to a drunk U-boat captain.

[Jaimainsoyyo]

Eight consecutive attacks against a group of 4 AVL with no damage for them AND a couple of points for my BC´s BB´s and SUB´s ( all at max supply and strenght), are enough proof of that something should be fixed?

[Jaimainsoyyo]

Transporst are sunk easily , however AVL are tougher than BB.

[Ostwindflak]

I'd agree that sounds a bit wonky.

[BillRunacre]

I've checked and there are two difference between Transports and AVL.

AVL's receive a 0.5 defensive boost per level of Amphibious Warfare research against air attacks including Carrier strikes.

But this gives them no benefits when attacked by ships or subs.

However, there is something else that might be the real issue, and this is that with every level they have a 10% greater chance of evading damage when attacked.

With hindsight I'm not really sure it's justifiable, and I assume is the cause of what you're seeing, so I will add that to the list of things to change.

Normal AVs receive it too, so I think what I'd like to do first is reduce their boost from 10 to 5% per level.

[Jaimainsoyyo]

Thanks [&o]

[xwormwood]

Just for the record: AVL still have an extremly large chance to receive a damage evaded result.
In my game against the Allied AI (exp. lvl) I've attack US AVL with the Italian navy. 5 out of 6 attacks resulted in a damage evaded combat result.
It is End of 1942, and I don't know which amphib level the USA got, bot no matter how high this level be, but 5 out of 6?

[BillRunacre]

Hi Claus

The settings at the moment are that both types of AV have a 10% chance of evading damage when attacked.

This goes up by 5% per level of Amphibious Warfare research, so the maximum chance of evasion is 35%, so I think the Italian navy must have been exceptionally unlucky.

This unlucky streak is of course possible because the engine does not remember previous combat results, which means that randomness occasionally generates frustrating results.

[xwormwood]

Maybe you could change the information text into something like "Attacking escorts allow the AVL to withdraw", or "emergency smoke screens protected the AVL from damage".
Don't use the words I've wrote,. just give the player a plausible explanation, anything more than what we got today would be much appreciated. This, and a lower % chance for AVL withdrawals.

Maybe - for future release - a chance to fail disastrously or to score a perfect hit could soften up the rule system as we know it today, too.

[AZKGungHo]

I just had one U-Boat hit one of my Long Range Amphib and do massive damage to it - from a 10 to a 4 in one turn!

[xwormwood]

ORIGINAL: AZ Gung Ho

I just had one U-Boat hit one of my Long Range Amphib and do massive damage to it - from a 10 to a 4 in one turn!

The question would be how high was your amphib level? The tech level effects the % chance to escape unharmed.

The AI has the tendency to max out techs, and I guess that is the reason why it is so extremly hard to destroy AI ambib units. From my last game I would say that the quote of escaped AVL was at least 50 or 60%.

From my point of view the AVL should get higher naval defense (and / or attack values) instead of a retreat option.
The AVLs are clumsy vessels, not sure how / why they should be able to be the most elusive naval vessel in the game.

[sPzAbt653]

The AVLs are clumsy vessels, not sure how / why they should be able to be the most elusive naval vessel in the game.

True, and we touched on this a while ago but nothing ever came of it. I suspect it is to give them a chance to survive, given the mechanic that they must sit out the turn once they are embarked, leaving them as sitting ducks.

[BillRunacre]

Generally a formation would scatter if attacked while unescorted. I don't mind reducing their starting evasion to zero, but one reason I like the idea of their evasion is that this way anyone attacking the AI's DDay invasion fleet will not be likely to sink 100% of the fleet.

[sPzAbt653]

Yes well, it has to be that way ... as long as you are positively sure that the amphibious transports do have to wait one turn before moving off to their target. [;)]

[xwormwood]

ORIGINAL: Bill Runacre

Generally a formation would scatter if attacked while unescorted. I don't mind reducing their starting evasion to zero, but one reason I like the idea of their evasion is that this way anyone attacking the AI's DDay invasion fleet will not be likely to sink 100% of the fleet.

That is why i would add some combat strength with every tech upgrade, instead of high evasion values. It is ok if the AVLs have a small chance to evade, at least for me. But i guess that the better the tech the more protection would be avaiable, and the harder it would be for attackers to reach the amphips.

Another thought would be to give amphibs a system like carriers. Instead of air attack they could get escorts, and while escorts strenght points remain, the evasion change could be higher, and with little or no more escorts they could become sitting ducks.

And, no matter if or what will ever get changed, i would change the information text from "damage evaded" into something more plausible, which doesn't leave the player behindes with thoughts like "how on earth should they evade a damage".