Suggestions thread

[TheBattlefield]

ORIGINAL: Xwormwood

This time I've got a question rather than a standard suggestion.

It regards the Warsaw ghetto rising. In my current game (against the Allied AI) the event just hit Warsaw, which got slightly damaged because of the fighting.
Please don't get me wrong, but do you really want to it to stay part of the GAME?

The history behind the Rising is a heroic one, which should never be forgot and often told, not only in history lesson: how the jewish victims made a final stand against the overwhelming might of their Nazi-German murderers.

The question is: does the shoa take place during my game which I only play for fun? Because if it takes place (and the active part with the partial destruction of Warsaw seems to prove it), I can't possibly play the Axis side, but only the Alied alliance.

If I play the Axis side knowing that during my game (even virtual) people get stuffed into a Ghetto, only to be transported into death factories, how am I supposed to play the Axis side at all?

I know of no easy solution for this. But it kind of made me stop when the event took place, damaging Warsaw (as a result of the fighting). I guess this is the dilemma of every WW2 wargame - what about the war crimes.

I'm not sure if it is a wise decision to let the Holocaust become part of the game, even if it is only such a tiny moment like the partial destruction of Warsaw.
Wouldn't it be better to offer an text information only? Or to add a larger part about the Shoa in the manual, explaining there what happened historically, and why all of it can't become part of a game you play with Beer & bretzels while listening to nice music?

Interesting thought. In particular, because the game owns a well functioning news messenger (Popup Event) and also uses this diligently for trivial and often little strategy relevant information. (Admiral Canaris Is Arrested, President Franklin D. Roosevelt Is Re-Elected, Paul Reynaud Becomes Prime Minister, etc. ) Or simply leave out the political-social background completely and hopefully rightly trust on it, that the player as a virtual supreme commander will commit no genocide!

[John B.]

I just had to warsaw uprising happen in my game (mid-1943) and it passed by without my thinking it was the uprising in the Ghetto. Rather, I assumed while doing other things that was the nationalist uprising just a year earlier than it historically happened But now that I think about it I think Xwormwood is right. If it's part of the Shoa it should not be in the game. I think we all play WWII games with a suspension of disbelief and pretend to ourselves that we're really fighting as the WWI Germans (used forced labor sure, but not genocide). Either notice it in passing like other historical events or leave it out altogether.

[sPzAbt653]

I don't know if maybe it was left out for game purposes, but
I remember a mention of the Murmansk-Arkhangelsk railway in
Seaton's book, I looked it up and it is all of one line:

The Finns had cut the Murmansk-Volkhov railway in August, but
engineers were building a new loop connecting Murmansk with
Arkhangel and Moscow. This was completed in November [1941].

A search on the net provided little but:

The Murmansk and the Arlthangel’sk railroads had been built under
the last Tsar, but a new line connecting the two cities, which
had been built along the south shore of the White Sea just prior
to the war, saved Murmansk from isolation when the Finns cut the
railroad north of Leningrad.

and

Onega is a minor port on a bay on the White Sea, which routinely
freezes in winter. The town is also served by the Arkhangelsk–Murmansk
rail line, which branches off in Obozerskaya railway station from the
railroad between Moscow and Arkhangelsk and runs west to Onega and
Belomorsk where it joins the railroad between Petrozavodsk and Murmansk.
The railroad was built during World War II to secure the transport of
goods from the harbor of Murmansk to central Russia.

[BillRunacre]

ORIGINAL: Xwormwood

This time I've got a question rather than a standard suggestion.

It regards the Warsaw ghetto rising. In my current game (against the Allied AI) the event just hit Warsaw, which got slightly damaged because of the fighting.
Please don't get me wrong, but do you really want to it to stay part of the GAME?

The history behind the Rising is a heroic one, which should never be forgot and often told, not only in history lesson: how the jewish victims made a final stand against the overwhelming might of their Nazi-German murderers.

The question is: does the shoa take place during my game which I only play for fun? Because if it takes place (and the active part with the partial destruction of Warsaw seems to prove it), I can't possibly play the Axis side, but only the Alied alliance.

If I play the Axis side knowing that during my game (even virtual) people get stuffed into a Ghetto, only to be transported into death factories, how am I supposed to play the Axis side at all?

I know of no easy solution for this. But it kind of made me stop when the event took place, damaging Warsaw (as a result of the fighting). I guess this is the dilemma of every WW2 wargame - what about the war crimes.

I'm not sure if it is a wise decision to let the Holocaust become part of the game, even if it is only such a tiny moment like the partial destruction of Warsaw.
Wouldn't it be better to offer an text information only? Or to add a larger part about the Shoa in the manual, explaining there what happened historically, and why all of it can't become part of a game you play with Beer & bretzels while listening to nice music?

Hi Claus

The Warsaw Ghetto uprising is one of the few significant events from the Holocaust that has always inspired me, and the relevant script is a straight import from SC2.

We do now with SC3 have the ability to have this as just a Pop Up message with no damage to Warsaw, i.e. it would be info only (something that in SC2 was only indirectly possible) so it could be converted to that if that would be preferable?

The only other event in game that relates to the Holocaust, though this time more indirectly, is a pop up message showing the Spanish prisoners of Mauthausen celebrating their liberation. This is one of my favourite pictures from the war, feeling their joy after such long years of misery, and will probably only appear in a small proportion of games.

Bill

[BillRunacre]

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

I don't know if maybe it was left out for game purposes, but
I remember a mention of the Murmansk-Arkhangelsk railway in
Seaton's book, I looked it up and it is all of one line

Thanks for this, it was news to me that there was one there! [:)]

I guess the story behind it is that they hurriedly finished it off once the war began.

We could in theory have the railway only become active under certain conditions, e.g. 5 turns after the USSR has joined the Allies... or it could be active right from the start as I'm not sure any delay would ever have any significant relevance?

[sPzAbt653]

We could in theory have the railway only become active under certain conditions

I didn't know you could do that, that is awesome [&o]

However, I would agree that any delay would be insignificant to the game. Unless maybe some players feel that they would like a quick window of opportunity to cut the line and capture Murmansk.

[sPzAbt653]

I also think there was something going on in the Tblisi-Batumi-Novorossisk region, but I have yet to find something substantive.

In my current game as the Allies against the Axis computer, I landed at Casablanca. I advanced with two units and a HQ eastwards, and as there is no road, supply dropped off and eventually the HQ could move no further east. I am having to back track it to Casablanca [the other two units made it thru to Oran].

Maybe the terrain is set up like that in that area to encourage landings inside the Mediterranean, but if not, maybe a few clear hexes, or a road, or also a 'rickety one track rail line' might be ok.

[xwormwood]

Hi Bill.

I agree with you, the Warsaw Ghetto uprising is a true inspiration for me as well.

Personally I would most definitely prefer a pop up information only.

A "pop-up only" would make clear that this is a important historical background information, but nothing on which the human player has any influence, nor responsibility.

Real action would mean that the holocaust takes place even within the game while the human player plays the Axis.
Even though the thought might be a rather far fetched one, it will always lurk around once Warsaw gets damaged because of the uprise (in the worst case added by ideas like "the Jews fight against me" / "what can I do to prevent this" / ...).

[xwormwood]

As long as there are no Mulberry units within the game (CoS like):
might at be possible to offer the Allied player a Mulberry DE, which resupply all landed units one turn after the 3 or more allied units have landed in France (1943)?

[xwormwood]

IF possible fasten the "Russian Winter Strikes" event. It take pretty long until every unit got its single explosion.
Suggestion: a white "tidal wave" moving over the entire russian soil, damaging everything which got affected by it. Whole process should take longer than 10 seconds. AND - NO - EXPLOSIONS. There are none while something freezes.

[PS Pita]

Bigger font for higher resolutions. (An option for larger print).

[sPzAbt653]

I have seen a little bit of talk about the mechanics when units are surrounded. I have a possible suggestion if it hasn't already been discounted for some reason:

Surrounded units that are attacked by ground units and suffer no strength loss will still suffer Morale and Readiness loss.

This type of loss currently happens when units are air attacked and suffer no strength loss, and it seems it may be appropriate in ground attacks also [representing loss of supply and equipment that cannot be replaced].

[berthier]

Comments after 4 campaigns as Axis, full FOW.

1) Initial issues I had with Finnish front have been resolved in latest upgrade.
2) There doesnt seem to be an ability to swap production points between the axis major allies. This may or may not be accurate, and all points may not be equal (that is Italian points may not be equivalent to GE ones), but Germans are paying for all the upgrades, reinforcements to the minor axis powers and Italy only pays for nations they have conquered which leads to some gamey play in the north africa. Who "liberates" each country (eg jordan syria etc)seems to determine who pays for any units they can build in that country and there are advantages to letting italy capture much in the ME if you want to build units there. If you dont, then it's better to have Germany capture them and use the production points gathered in other countries in europe. Anyway, back to the original query, it might be worth considering limited transfer of points between It/Ger in either direction, perhaps with a % loss in the transfer- eg Italy send 50points to Germany but only 45 are received.
3) Allied production capacity, particularly the late war avalanche of air and naval units is modelled well and poses serious problems to the Axis. The DDay landings I havent quite figured out yet as they have occurred in 1943 summer in my last three games- what determines the timing of this? France is garrisoned an engineer has built forts 2/3 the way down the coastline but the Allies still come in 43. Does this reflect an under-performance of the strategic U Boat war in the Atlantic?
4) After the fall of Egpyt there are 2 British BB that enter the Red Sea and stay there until sunk (last three games). Not sure what they are doing or where they are going but it is just a turkey shoot..
5) North Africa is a very tough ask for the AI Allied player to hold onto. In every game I've played the Axis have broken through and the last two reached Russia (only to be beaten back in late 44). This is a difficult one to control as there is no limit on what the Axis can send to N Africa and the defence seems scripted and inflexible. The last game saw the entire mediterrean cleared of the Allies and the Torch landings thrown back and out of Africa. I cant offer a solution only the observation. Th downside to "conquering" the Med is the distraction of forces from other theatres so perhaps that is the point.
6) Like others have said with the transfer of forces to France after Poland and East after France the process is tedious. A "Theatre trasfer" move would be highly recommended just with a calculated point cost and a time frame. So the move Panzer Corps Paris to Warsaw might be click the unit in Paris, click theatre move, click warsaw - script this move will take x turns and cost x points, click yes or cancel.
7) Allied landings in France. There are secondary attempts to land at points in the game by additional forces along the coast behind the front lines (think Anzio) on the two occasions Ive seen this by the AI the first was a single HQ unit landing in a space between a coastal fortification and a garrison unit with a GE infantry corps one hex inland. The HQ lasted one turn. The second time this occurred was with a single US Inf corps, same sort of contested position, it lasted two turns. The single hex invasion strategy as a follow up, if that is what is happening seems doomed. Interestingly no attempts were made to land in Norway or northern Germnay where defences were sparse.
8) Colours of units in sand storm areas make the germans and brits look almost identical! This requires looking at the nationality icons to see who is who, whereas colour is always a quicker and less demanding indicator. Similarly, the roundels for the Bulgarians, Rumanians and Slovaks look awfully similar at first glance, is there a better delineator?
9) How do the RU aircraft sortie from a hex to attack a unit, then leave that hex and have another air unit attack from the same hex? Is this the same unit doing multiple attacks or shuffling of units through to attack and if so how on both questions?

[BillRunacre]

ORIGINAL: berthier

9) How do the RU aircraft sortie from a hex to attack a unit, then leave that hex and have another air unit attack from the same hex? Is this the same unit doing multiple attacks or shuffling of units through to attack and if so how on both questions?

Hi

Thanks for the feedback. With this question, it depends on the unit type as if Aerial Warfare has been researched, some air units get 2 strikes. Could it be that?

Bill

[rjh1971]

Suggestion, should Gibraltar be conquered by the Axis, the loop hexes to enter or exit the Med should revert so the Allies could use them. Can this be implemented?
Actually once Gibraltar falls, the Med is a closed sea for the Allies through Gibraltar.
v1.00.08

[xwormwood]

I guess it would take some time for the Axis to secure a passage through the (sea minded) Gibraltar street once they took Gibraltar itself.

[TheBattlefield]

ORIGINAL: rjh1971

Suggestion, should Gibraltar be conquered by the Axis, the loop hexes to enter or exit the Med should revert so the Allies could use them. Can this be implemented?
Actually once Gibraltar falls, the Med is a closed sea for the Allies through Gibraltar.
v1.00.08

This question has already been answered in the thread "Balance and Difficulty" [;)]

ORIGINAL: Bill Runacre

I have considered such a loop via Gibraltar for the Allies, though it would have proven far trickier because the Germans were able from April 1942 to monitor traffic through the Gibraltar Strait with a chain of fourteen infra-red ship surveillance stations, with nine of these stations on the Spanish coast and the rest in Morocco (the Germans made use of their good relations with Spain).

Coupled with German control of Gibraltar it would have been extremely hard for Allied shipping to sneak through, which is why I'm reluctant to allow it for the Allies.

[rjh1971]

Hey thanks for the info, I wasn't aware of it.

[Mithrilotter]

I would like to see a UK Decision Event added for Operation Explorer, where the UK took over Vichy Lebanon-Syria during June-July 1941. The Germans have similar decision events, for example DE's 637 and 638, occupying Vichy France and DE's 639 and 640 occupying Tunisia.

[crispy131313]

I played a game in which Finland joined the Axis in 1944, it took awhile to bring them back Axis leaning after Allied support in the winter war. At this time the Allies had all the momentum and it seemed implausible that Finland would join The war at this time. I would suggest making it a condition that France is still surrendered if Finland is to join the Axis. Also a second consideration if France is Liberated but Moscow is in Axis hands Finland could still join as Finland was really only at war with USSR. So two possible scenarios, but definitely Finland should not join if Paris and Moscow are both In Allied hands, as these are clear benchmarks that the Axis are on the defense.