Thread for DB3000 database problems, updates or issues

[Aethyrion]

Rafale
A bit of history after some internet search:
- Tranche 1 were test versions, except 9 Rafale M (M2-M10) which were operational (F1 standard). They were "mothballed" in 2008, but they are currently being upgraded (from 2014 to 2016) to F3.3' including DDM-NG and OSF-IT, but apparently they will keep their PESA radar for now.
- Tranche 2 were delivered from 2004 to 2008 and all of them had already been upgraded (from F2 standard) to F3 in 2010.
- Tranche 3 were delivered from 2009 to 2013 in F3 standard. Those aircrafts (and those upgraded from F2) (still) have the PESA radar, OSF (1st version) and DDM (not NG). Exception: the C137 (T3) was equiped with the first AESA radar (2012).
- Tranche 4 have been delivered from 2013 in F3-O4T standard with AESA radar, DDM-NG and OSF-IT.
- It seems all those aircrafts (now at least at F3 standard) can receive "software updates" (versions 3.2 around 2011, 3.3 and 3.3' around 2013, 3.4+ en 2014) allowing them to use new compatible equipment.
- SBU-64 IR are operational on Rafale from 2011.
- SBU-54 SALH are operational on Rafale from 2013.
- GBU-24A/B are operational on Rafale from 2015 (but support was a part of 2013 F3.3 standard).

To keep it simple, I propose:
- Add a 2008 end date for Rafale M F1 2004. Not sure what to do with the 2002 version (without buddy store) concerning their end date (2004 or 2008?).
- For all F3 2013 variants (B, C and M): add support for GBU-24A/B. For loadout, we could use the F3R (the one without meteor) just replacing the Talios pod by the Damocles one.
Note: Dassault said the Rafale is able to be equipped with 2 or 3 GBU-24, but French Air Force and Navy currently only want the configuration with one central bomb (notably for avoiding asymmetric configuration during carrier landing). However, a configuration with one GBU-24 and up to 6x500lb gbu/sbu may be used in the future (maybe a candidate loadout for CMANO F3R version?)
- Rename F3.4 versions to F3-O4T (from all variants B, C and M), change introduction date from 2014 Slow-introduction to 2013. Add support for GBU-24A/B as above.
- Create a new 2014 version named Rafale M F3 (F1 retrofit) identical to F3-O4T except for RBE2-AA (AESA radar) which should be replaced by PESA RBE2.

- All variants: at 4nm, Rafale's laser rangefinder seems very short ranged (except if the database value is not max range) and consequently nearly useless (it looks like a short range value like the one used for ship gun directors). I thought the RL version to have a range of about 10-15nm but can't find any source to confirm it. However F-35 have a 15nm laser rangefinder. So consider improving the Rafale one to the same value (for all versions in db).

- SPECTRA: as explained in a previous post by another poster, SPECTRA is also an OECM device: "In game Defensive jamming happend only just before the hit roll of the incomming missile, but Rafale jamming goes well beyond that since it can directly jamm, in stealthy manner, the ennemy radar and sensors. This ingame should be translated into an offesnive jamming capability both in air to air and air to ground.Each generation of rafale (F1, F2, F3, F3.4, F3R) improves the power and the capabilities of Spectra with lastly GaN antennas."
Note that GaN antennas for SPECTRA has been tested in 2014, and will probably be introduced in F3R standard.
I have understood these abilities could not be properly modeled in previous CMANO versions. Is the game now ready to implement them? I don't expect something as efficient as a dedicated OECM pod (like those used by Growlers), but the OECM feature is reported to be really useful though.
Note: RBE2-AA is apparently not yet able to do jamming/OECM, but this ability may be added during the MLU (around 2025).

[Aethyrion]

Mirage 2000D 2019 (new MLU version, to be created)
- Radar, avionics and ECM will be updated (including IFF ?), but we should probably wait for more information (keeping current 2016 versions for now).
- Add a gun pod. Don't know yet which pod will be used, but the DEFA 30mm from retired F1C may be used IRL. We could use that while waiting more information.
- Replace Magic 2 by MICA-IR.
- Add support for Talios pod.
- AASM SBU was/is an option, but nothing sure yet.

Mirage 2000N K3
- Add loadout with 4 gbu-12 (same as 2 gbu-12 loadout + 2 more bombs). Capacity used in 2015. Also consider adding a 4 gbu-22 and 4 mk-82 conf (no source, but no reason it could not be done).

Apache missile
- They were mothballed in 2008 or 2009 so consider removing them from all 2009+ configuration (Mirage variants for example)

Mirage 2000C-RDI
Found info:
- RDI S4 serie (S4, S4-1, S4-2 all upgraded to S4-2a, each successive variant had a better radar) from 1989 to 1992.
- RDI S5 serie with better radar (upgraded to S5-2C at some point improving ECM suite, cannot find when) from 1992.
- Successive radar improvements seem difficult to model in the db.

- Add a 2015 version: since 2015, they are able to operate with 4x500lb bombs (gbu-12 or mk-82). Also consider adding a 4 gbu-22 conf (no source, but no reason it could not be done). Loadout similar to Mirage 2000N loadout proposed above. Requires external illumination.

[Gunner98]

Any possibility of adding the KC-33A:

Although the KC-25 is in the DB for Iran. The proposed competitor for the KC-10 - the Boing 747-400SF tanker is not.

This Australian comparison is interesting: http://www.ausairpower.net/APAA/APA-2005-02.pdf

Cool photo: http://www.habu.org/kc-135q/N1352B.html
Briefing slide deck: http://www.slideshare.net/1st_TSG_Airbo ... -airliners

So this would be in the 'hypothetical' category - I would plan on using it in the later Northern Fury scenarios.

Thanks

[kevinkins]

While there are several types of USAF WW2 era P40s, the P38 is apparently missing. Working on a scenario(s) around Rabaul which has potential for community release.
I have a feeling previous DBs had the P38 since there are those mentioned P40s. I think the P38 is more "important" with respect to Command and the Pacific WW2. Thanks for considering.

[Aethyrion]

Brazilian AF-1
- They are operated by Brazilian Navy, not Air Force

Tigre HAP/HAD
Notes:
- They have 2 inner-hardpoints (4 Hellfire, 22 rockets or 1 fuel tank for each) and 2 outer-harpoints (2 Mistral or 12 Rockets). Hellfire on wingtip seems to be technically possible but does not seem to have been validated by any army.
- To reduce the number of loadouts, I propose to make Mistral optional (see below).

So for HAP:
- Make the 4 Mistral optional in the loadout with 44 rockets. The 44 rockets loadout (without Mistral) was maybe the most used conf.
- Consider adding a 2025 end date (all HAP would be upgraded to HAD at this date).

For HAD:
- I don't see how the 8 Hellfire, 4 Mistral and 22 rockets is possible (without Hellfire on wingtip). Consider removing it.
- Make the the 4 Mistral optional in the loadout with 8 Hellfire.
- Remove the 8 Hellfire loadout.
- Add 4 optional Mistral to the 4 Hellfire + 22 rockets conf (lot of pictures for this loadout on the web).
- Add 4 optional Mistral on the fuel tank + 22 rockets conf.
- Add a 4 Hellfire + 1 FT + 24 rockets loadout.
- Add a 4 Hellfire + 46 rockets loadout.
- Add a fuel tank + 46 rockets loadout.

For HAD/HAP:
- It seems French Army do not use configuration with fuel tank and weapon on the same side (because the tank is not armored, so such a conf is considered as too dangerous), unlike Spanish Army. So I propose to make all french Tigre loadouts with fuel tank hypothetical except the 3 following loadouts: Ferry with 2 FT, 1 FT + 4 Hellfire and 1 FT + 22 rockets.
- Ferry range (with 2 fuel tanks) seems too short. French Defense Minister page about Tigre mentions a 1300km (700nm) range.
- Consider improving rocket range (2nm in database, but advertised as 5km range, so 2.7nm)
Note: 4 types of rockets are usable (mixed confs possible): MD (36 submunitions, used against mobile soft vehicle groups or 432 submunitions, used against personnal + equipment), HE-IMP (HEAT), HE-MM (HEAT with 2 modes: impact and airburst). I have not found which versions are used by French Army (maybe only the more polyvalent HE-MM, MD versions are probably banned since they use submunitions). With current streamlined ground combat model, not sure we need more detailed model than the one we have in current database.

Add a 2020 variant with submetric SALH rockets ACULEUS LG:
- Can use Tigre STRIX designator or external designation.
- Range: 5km (2.7nm), LOAL ability.
- Mixed rockets (standard and SALH) loadout in the same pod is possible. Seems hard to model in the db so maybe consider replacing all standard rockets in 2020 loadouts by the guided version (same range).

Mk3 (MLU) upgrade is planned between 2023 and 2025: Hellfire to be replaced by a more efficient ATGM (several candidates), optronic upgrade, firearms shot position detector... Not enough info to create a version in db yet.

Mistral 2 missiles
- They can also be used from Tigre helos against ground soft mobile targets (this was useful with HAP versions which don't have anti-vehicle missiles). At least 6 missiles where used this way during Harmattan (Lybia) with at least 50% PK. Consider adding new valid target.
French Wipideia page mentions this source: Frédéric Lert, « Le Tigre au combat-La naissance d'un fauve », AIR & COSMOS, hors série, no 26,‎ juin 2014.

[Mgellis]

I found some information about the next generation SSBN...

https://news.usni.org/2016/07/28/ohio-r ... -named-d-c
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohio_Repl ... _Submarine

...so I guess they will be called the Columbia-class SSBN. Operational dates: 2031-

This might be a bit too far out in the future for Command, but I figured I would mention it in case people thought it would be a good addition.

It also looks like the British Successor-class SSBN will enter service in 2028.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Successor-class_submarine

[Mgellis]

Class: Arihant class
Service: Indian Navy
Service Dates: 2016-
Pennants: S 73 Arihant; S 74 Aridhaman; two others
Displacement: 6,000 tonnes (5,900 long tons; 6,600 short tons) surfaced
Length: 112 m.
Beam: 11 m.
Depth: 10 m.
Crush Depth (for submarines): 300 m.
Installed power: 1 × pressurised water reactor; 83 MW (111,000 hp)
Propulsion: 1 × propeller shaft
Speed: Surfaced: 12–15 knots (22–28 km/h); Submerged: 24 knots (44 km/h)
Range: Unlimited
Sensors: USHUS sonar
Endurance: Unlimited
Complement: 95
Armament: Missiles: 12 × K15 SLBM; Torpedoes: 6 × 21" (533 mm) torpedo tubes – est. 30 charges (torpedoes, cruise missiles or mines). Probably capable of firing USET-80K, SS-N-15 Starfish rocket/torpedo, 53-65KE WH torpedo, Test-71ME torpedoes, and SS-N-27 Sizzler anti-ship missiles. (Looks like she could be used not only as a nuclear deterrent but for long range (hit and run?) anti-ship strike missions.)
Possibly carries 18 x SA-N-8 Gremlins in a Mast launcher?

Thanks for considering this one.

[mikmykWS]

Anybody have a picture of an Iraqi Alca with an actual weapon on it?

Need to implement.

Thanks!

Mike

[hellfish6]

ORIGINAL: mikmyk

Anybody have a picture of an Iraqi Alca with an actual weapon on it?

Need to implement.

Thanks!

Mike

There's a video.

https://twitter.com/iraqiairforce

July 17 SU-25/F-16/L-159 video. At 0:40-0:50 there's a series of sequences with an L-159 and a pair each of Mk82s and fuel tanks on pylons. 1:01-1:27 shows a pair of them (same ones?) taking off. Interview with a pilot at the end of the video, in Arabic, but no view of ordnance.

[hellfish6]

Also, some photos of their incoming KAI T-50s on their facebook page. https://www.facebook.com/iqAirForce/

From 13 July:

https://www.facebook.com/iqAirForce/pho ... =3&theater



Not sure if it's the same pair as the video.

[stilesw]

Any of these help?

-Wayne Stiles

[mikmykWS]

ORIGINAL: hellfish6

Also, some photos of their incoming KAI T-50s on their facebook page. https://www.facebook.com/iqAirForce/

From 13 July:

https://www.facebook.com/iqAirForce/pho ... =3&theater



Not sure if it's the same pair as the video.

Perfect. Thank You! Added Alca with Mk 82's. Will add more loads as I find pictures.

T-50's on hold until they're pictured in the air with loadouts.

Mike

[Pancor]

Hello

it looks like the Indonesian air force F-16 has the AIM-120C-7 AMRAAM
Source:
http://www.dsca.mil/major-arms-sales/in ... es-amraams
http://thediplomat.com/2016/03/us-clear ... indonesia/

Thanks

[Zaslon]

Corrections to the spanish Mirage Fleet. I am started with the Mirage IIIEE/DE. Later I will follow with the Mirage F1CE/BE/EE/M

#1271 Mirage IIIEE [C.11] 24x

RWR same than #1876, BU/BZ
Spanish Mirage IIIEE was delivered not from the factory but from Armee de l'Air units.

Weapons:
AIM-9N 1978-1982
AIM-9P3 since 1983
R530 (SARH) until 1987 AD.26 Radar
R530 (IR) until 1987 new in DB AD.3501 Heat Seeker
BR-125 new in DB General Purpose bomb 125 kg, similar to Mk81
BR-250 new in DB General Purpose bomb 250 kg, similar to Mk82
BR-375 new in DB General Purpose bomb 375 kg, similar to M117 #213
BR-500 new in DB General Purpose bomb 500 kg, similar to Mk83
LAU-32 (CRV7)
RPK-10 (supersonic fuel tank 500 liters). new in DB
RPK-10 w/ 4 x BR125
RPK-10 w/ 4 x BR250
RPK-10 w/ 1 x BR375
1,300 liter drop tank
1,700 liter drop tank


Typical A/A loadouts:
2x sidewinders and 1x 1,300 liter drop tank
2x sidewinders + 2x RPK-10 + 1x 1,300 liter drop tank (max. radius 540 nm)
2x sidewinders, 1x R.530 (SARH) and 2x RPK-10.
2x sidewinders, 1x R.530 (IR) and 2x RPK-10.
Commonly used in pairs (one aircraft with R.530 IR and other with R.530 SARH) RAA 379

Typical A/G loadouts:
2x sidewinders + 2x RPK-10 w/ 4 x BR-125 + 1,300 liter drop tank
2x sidewinders + 2x RPK-10 w/ 4 x BR-250 + 1,300 liter drop tank
2x sidewinders + 2x RPK-10 w/ 1 x BR-375 + 1,700 liter drop tank
2x sidewinders + 2x BR-500 + 1,300 liter drop tank
2x LAU-32 (CRV7) + 2x 1,300 liter drop tank
2x LAU-32 (CRV7) + 2x RPK-10


Mirage IIIEE in flight with 2x LAU-32 (CRV7) + 2x RPK-10


Mirage IIIEE showing a R.530 in the belly.


Mirage IIIEE showing a RPK-10 with 2 BR-250? GPB. One BR-500 and BR-250? in the belly.

#1272 Mirage IIIEE (C.11) 1987-1992 21x

Changes from #1271 No R.530 missile. No AIM-9N.

Then:

AIM-9P3
BR125
BR250
BR375
BR500
LAU-32 (CRV7)
RPK-10 (supersonic fuel tank 500 liters).
RPK-10 w/ 4 x BR125
RPK-10 w/ 4 x BR250
RPK-10 w/ 1 x BR375
1,300 liter drop tank
1,700 liter drop tank
SEPR841/844 (never used but 12 bought.)

Mirage IIIDE is missing. Changes from Mirage IIIEE
Two-seat.
No radar.
No SEPR-841/844.
No DEFA cannons.
Lenght: 16 m.

Two new entries proposed:
Mirage IIIDE [CE.11] 1970-1987 6x
Same loadouts than EE (No R-530)

Mirage IIIDE [CE.11] 1987 -1992 6x
Same loadouts than EE


Mirage IIIEE launching 7? BR-250 GPB with 2x RPK-10.

In 1988 Spain started a modernization for the Spanish Mirage III fleet (23 units, 18 EE and 5 DE). Sadly, it was cancelled in 1991.

Two new hypothetical entries proposed:
Mirage IIIEE (M) [C.11M] 1992 - 2004 18x Attack
Mirage IIIDE (M) [CE.11M] 1992 - 2004 5x Attack

For all EE/DE (M):
Probe Refuelling
AN/ALR-300 RWR
AN/ALE 40 Chaff and flare dispenser
UF/VHF Radio [Secure] (same than #536)
Bombsight- Advance computer
Terrain avoidance (similar to #536)
4 new weapons stations (see picture).
Night Navigation (ferry, air-to-air, air-to-ground missiles) TACAN, VOR/ILS, INS, HSI, HUD..

New weapons for all EE/DE (M):
AIM-9JULI
GBU-10 Paveway II
GBU-16 Paveway II
AGM-65G Maverick
Barax DECM Pod.

Only for EE (M):
Radar Emerson APQ-159


Weapons stations in Mirage IIIEE (M)


Weapons per station EE (M)
DECM pod should be BARAX pod but it is not clear.
Lanzacohetes= Rocket launcher.
This picture is great to develop loadouts. Sadly there are a few pics of Mirage IIIEE with real ordnance.

Sources:
'Revista de Aeronautica y Astronáutica', several numbers (in Spanish)
'Salud y planchetas' article (In french)

Thanks.

[Mgellis]

I tried to dig up what I could about the Type 31 frigate (which will supplement the Type 26 GCS)...

This is not perfect, but might be enough to put an initial version in the database.

Class: Type 31 frigate
Service: UK Navy
Service Dates: 2025-
Pennants: TBA
Displacement: 4,000 tonnes
Length: 117m
Beam: 18m
Depth: 4.3m
Installed power: 4 x diesel engine
Propulsion: 1 propeller?
Speed: 25 knots
Range: 7,000 Nautical Miles at 15 knots
Sensors: TBA but promotional materials suggest a HF sonar and a 3D air/surface search radar; suite is probably very similar to the one for the Type 26 (DB #2514) but without the VDS (Type 2087?) sonar.
Complement: 106+18 personnel
Armament: TBA but promotional materials suggest a) 4.5" or 5" naval gun, b) 2 x 4-box launchers for anti-ship/anti-land cruise missiles (total of 8 x Joint Strike Missile, DB #2285?), c) 24-tube VLS for SAM missiles (24 Sea Ceptors?), and d) 2 x 30mm CIWS
Side launched RHIBs (2 RHIBs), with a third large RHIB within a stern ramp facility
Flexible mission bay
Flight deck and hangar for medium (10-ton?) helicopter

(This uses statistics for the BAE Venator 110, which appears to be one of the contenders for the contract)

http://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/type-31-g ... abilities/

http://www.bmtdsl.co.uk/media/6102250/B ... 0Brief.pdf

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_31_frigate

Thanks for considering this one.

[Mgellis]

An idea about how to model the Chinese Type 095 submarine...

Use the statistics, sensors, weapons, etc. for the Type 093A (database , but use the hull characteristics of the Akula II (DB #625). This is about 10db quieter than the Type 093, making it as quiet as a late model Los Angeles (like the SSN Providence, DB #181), but not quite as quiet as the Virginia or the Astute.

Thoughts? Observations?

[Hongjian]

ORIGINAL: Mgellis

An idea about how to model the Chinese Type 095 submarine...

Use the statistics, sensors, weapons, etc. for the Type 093A (database , but use the hull characteristics of the Akula II (DB #625). This is about 10db quieter than the Type 093, making it as quiet as a late model Los Angeles (like the SSN Providence, DB #181), but not quite as quiet as the Virginia or the Astute.

Thoughts? Observations?

There are some new information/leaks/rumors regarding that submarine posted in the usual Chinese military forums. There are some indications that this submarine would be a more radical departure in terms of hull design than anticipated.

I will write a more elaborate post in the Naval and Defense News thread.

[mikmykWS]

Wrong string guys

That kind of stuff here

tm.asp?m=3789961&mpage=40&key=&#4144364

We need just the facts here. Need specs, photos etc.

Thanks

Mike

[willpope697]

ORIGINAL: mikmyk

ORIGINAL: willpope697

I'd love it if you would consider adding these units for uk to the DB Ive not been able to post links due toregulations on the forum therefor I've just stated my source that can easily be found with a quick Google search

P8A Poseidon for the RAF due 2019
Source, IHS Jane's UK orders P8 Poseidon article

Protector RPAS (predator B) for the RAF due 2018
Source, Flight global UK selects predator B as reaper replacement article

AH-64Es for the army air corps to replace their ageing WAH-64Ds, there has also been talk of implementing the brimstone 2 on the E variant
Source, IHS Jane's article UK request ah-64Es article

CV-22 osprey for the army air corps the details are very vague but it seems like UKSF pilots are now flying or will be flying the V-22
Source, dailymail v-22 osprey "transformer" article

I hope you consider these the last request is a bit vague granted and I imagine your to do list is extremely long, again sorry about the links

Thanks

You actually have to provide links. Not just write where you read it [:)]

Funny though..hehe

Thanks

Mike

V-22
https://www.thesun.co.uk/archives/news/ ... -bombings/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ht-UK.html

P-8
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/mod- ... ep-uk-safe

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... mails.html

Predator B
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... em-424667/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05 ... y-on-targ/

AH-64E
http://www.army.mod.uk/news/28635.aspx

http://forces.tv/63899218

Hope these links are adequate, at the time of the initial post I wasnt able to post links. Thanks in advance

[orca]

I'm using the db 445. The LCS don't have the AN/SQR-20 Multi-Function Towed Array. Aren't these standard on all LCS?