Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE

[Kull]

Pretty sure the spreadsheet includes the escorts for each starting convoy, so you can use that as a guide. Preferably you don't want escorts with super short legs like >3000 on the LA-Sydney run, but otherwise it's not really a big deal - they will refuel along the way from the freighters/tankers they are escorting. DDs with 5-6K you'll want to assign to your combat TFs because you definitely DON'T want those to be slowed down by short legged ships.

[Chuske]

Hi Kull,

Been using your Allies truly excellent (great work!) spreadsheet as a way of getting back into AE after 3 years break and I have a few questions for you:-

1) You assign amphib ships (from TF408) to rescue the weany base forces off Ocean and Nauru Island? What do you intend to do with such small bases forces? Aren't these ships too big and too high value for such a job with no escort? Or have I missed an escort meeting these ships?

2) You suggest ordering the 14th RAAF BF in Charters Towers, Oz to Conclurry? I'm puzzled as to why you move them there, in other games I'd played like my first unfinished GC and Guadalcanal scen Charter's Towers was a handy base for 4E bombers supporting Port Moresby.

3) You are also ordering combat units to Milne Bay and Terapo in New Guinea but there are no corresponding base forces I can find being ordered to build up those bases. What BFs do you use for these?

4) Is the intention of moving Tasmanian BFs to Norfolk and Lord Howe island to build those as bases for ASW search planes?

5) Your strat in Malaysia is very different to Sardaukar's bug out strat, where he rescues the 2 Aus brigades and gets them out to form the 8th Aus div. Any comments on the pros/cons of the strat in this guide vs rescuing the Aussies?

6) China is still a bit of a mystery to me and prob with the guide here for me is I'm not sure what the overall strat behind your openings moves in China so don't feel like I'm learning so much here without some background as to your approach.

7) I'm having trouble getting the Brunei RAN BF out with the Lodestars from Java that are moved to Borneo. The "pick up troops" button will appear for the Miri BF but not the Brunei one and get message that can't pick up restricted troopd. Makes no sense as both BFs are ABDA and unrestricted so why I can pick up Miri and not Brunei I don't know....

Jon

[Kull]

Hi Jon - As a general rule, the spreadsheet is intended for play against the AI, and to help the newbie Allied player get going. So it has a mix of strategies that probably wouldn't be a great idea against a human player, but give the AI a fight. So:

ORIGINAL: jonboym

Hi Kull,

Been using your Allies truly excellent (great work!) spreadsheet as a way of getting back into AE after 3 years break and I have a few questions for you:-

1) You assign amphib ships (from TF408) to rescue the weany base forces off Ocean and Nauru Island? What do you intend to do with such small bases forces? Aren't these ships too big and too high value for such a job with no escort? Or have I missed an escort meeting these ships?

The units are small, but they make for nice, low cost seaplane bases in risky advanced locations where valuable ships and units fear to tread (very good for a size 3 seaplane fragment). The ships that go get them are valuable, but they are also nearby and it's usually pretty low risk to make this pick-up in the first few game turns. Highly unlikely to encounter Japanese surface or sub forces, and there's time to send an escort or two to meet them on the way home AFTER the rescue.

2) You suggest ordering the 14th RAAF BF in Charters Towers, Oz to Conclurry? I'm puzzled as to why you move them there, in other games I'd played like my first unfinished GC and Guadalcanal scen Charter's Towers was a handy base for 4E bombers supporting Port Moresby.

I'm trying to remember which ones off hand (P40E, P40B, probably others) but some of the shorter legged land planes can't get up to Darwin without making several hops, and none of the hops can happen without the waystation base at Cloncurry. Admittedly you can rail them up to Alice Springs for the first jump, but that takes rail turns and further turns to undo the damage. I prefer to fly them the whole way. Flip of the coin as to whether it's worth expending a BF for this purpose.

3) You are also ordering combat units to Milne Bay and Terapo in New Guinea but there are no corresponding base forces I can find being ordered to build up those bases. What BFs do you use for these?

Bowen RAN BF is tasked (or should be) to plan for Milne Bay. The only unit going to Terapo is the tiny Aussie C company. Just to keep Terapo from flipping and force the Japanese to actively try for it if they want it. Too close and too small to try and set up a base there.

4) Is the intention of moving Tasmanian BFs to Norfolk and Lord Howe island to build those as bases for ASW search planes?

Exactly.

5) Your strat in Malaysia is very different to Sardaukar's bug out strat, where he rescues the 2 Aus brigades and gets them out to form the 8th Aus div. Any comments on the pros/cons of the strat in this guide vs rescuing the Aussies?

If you are playing the AI, you can get more bang for your buck by grabbing some of the smaller and cheaper units in Malaya, and deploying them in various SWA island locations. Plus it keeps Singers from being an absolute walkover.

6) China is still a bit of a mystery to me and prob with the guide here for me is I'm not sure what the overall strat behind your openings moves in China so don't feel like I'm learning so much here without some background as to your approach.

In general the idea is to pull units back from undefendable front line locations and try to hold key locations. The baseline strategy is to hold as much as possible of the rail line between Chengchow and Liuchow. Which includes sending extra units south from Chunking to help defend key locations along that line (and almost everything north of Sining). Chengchow in particular is key - if you can hold that at the start, it makes the Japanese advance very difficult. Of course, all of this is insanity against a human player, but it offers a fairly historical result versus the AI.

7) I'm having trouble getting the Brunei RAN BF out with the Lodestars from Java that are moved to Borneo. The "pick up troops" button will appear for the Miri BF but not the Brunei one and get message that can't pick up restricted troopd. Makes no sense as both BFs are ABDA and unrestricted so why I can pick up Miri and not Brunei I don't know....

Brunei has a size "zero" A/F, so you can't pick up the 107th with standard land based transports like the Lodestars. You'll need Catalinas or some other seaplane to extract those guys. Pretty small unit, so it won't take many turns....but you also have a lot of other priorities.

Hopefully that offers some of the "behind the scenes" thinking you were interested in!

Regards, Kull

[Chuske]

ORIGINAL: Kull

ORIGINAL: jonboym

Hi Kull,

Been using your Allies truly excellent (great work!) spreadsheet as a way of getting back into AE after 3 years break and I have a few questions for you:-

1) You assign amphib ships (from TF408) to rescue the weany base forces off Ocean and Nauru Island? What do you intend to do with such small bases forces? Aren't these ships too big and too high value for such a job with no escort? Or have I missed an escort meeting these ships?

The units are small, but they make for nice, low cost seaplane bases in risky advanced locations where valuable ships and units fear to tread (very good for a size 3 seaplane fragment). The ships that go get them are valuable, but they are also nearby and it's usually pretty low risk to make this pick-up in the first few game turns. Highly unlikely to encounter Japanese surface or sub forces, and there's time to send an escort or two to meet them on the way home AFTER the rescue.

Thanks, really helps gives me an idea why those BFs might have value. Other issue is to weigh up the PP cost to move those BFs, 25 PPs each....

3) You are also ordering combat units to Milne Bay and Terapo in New Guinea but there are no corresponding base forces I can find being ordered to build up those bases. What BFs do you use for these?

Bowen RAN BF is tasked (or should be) to plan for Milne Bay. The only unit going to Terapo is the tiny Aussie C company. Just to keep Terapo from flipping and force the Japanese to actively try for it if they want it. Too close and too small to try and set up a base there.

Looks like maybe a typo then as for both Bundaberg and Bowen you have the comment "Strat Move Mode, Rail to Brisbane (Will release with 20 PP and send to Noumea)".

I never know how important Milne Bay is certainly makes it harder to take Port Moresby but spreads the defence thinner....

5) Your strat in Malaysia is very different to Sardaukar's bug out strat, where he rescues the 2 Aus brigades and gets them out to form the 8th Aus div. Any comments on the pros/cons of the strat in this guide vs rescuing the Aussies?

If you are playing the AI, you can get more bang for your buck by grabbing some of the smaller and cheaper units in Malaya, and deploying them in various SWA island locations. Plus it keeps Singers from being an absolute walkover.

Interesting, yes the the Aussies do cost a lot of PPs to buy out but if you do get them and Lark Bn out and form the 8th Div its supposed to be a very good unit.

6) China is still a bit of a mystery to me and prob with the guide here for me is I'm not sure what the overall strat behind your openings moves in China so don't feel like I'm learning so much here without some background as to your approach.

In general the idea is to pull units back from undefendable front line locations and try to hold key locations. The baseline strategy is to hold as much as possible of the rail line between Chengchow and Liuchow. Which includes sending extra units south from Chunking to help defend key locations along that line (and almost everything north of Sining). Chengchow in particular is key - if you can hold that at the start, it makes the Japanese advance very difficult. Of course, all of this is insanity against a human player, but it offers a fairly historical result versus the AI.

Yeah sometimes I wondered if anyone has ever posted any advice on what to do differently in PBEM vs AI. At the start (turn 2) Japanese players strat won't be apparent so you have to have a flexible plan in place and make moves accordingly but I'd have no idea what what to do differently in PBEM and as I already struggle finding the time to play and read all the key threads and key AAR's I've never dared try PBEM.

7) I'm having trouble getting the Brunei RAN BF out with the Lodestars from Java that are moved to Borneo. The "pick up troops" button will appear for the Miri BF but not the Brunei one and get message that can't pick up restricted troopd. Makes no sense as both BFs are ABDA and unrestricted so why I can pick up Miri and not Brunei I don't know....

Brunei has a size "zero" A/F, so you can't pick up the 107th with standard land based transports like the Lodestars. You'll need Catalinas or some other seaplane to extract those guys. Pretty small unit, so it won't take many turns....but you also have a lot of other priorities.

Ahhh ok. That confused me as the guide gave me the impression I need to use the Lodestars for Brunei as well as Miri and the error message the game gave me was something along the lines of not being able to restricted units which is misleading if its really because there's no airbase!

Two possible amendments are that I see no reason to change the HQ of the Lodestars as seems they can pick up Miri BF no probs with their default HQ and also their range allows them to fly to Smarinda and still get he Miri BF out, no need to go to Tarakan

Hopefully that offers some of the "behind the scenes" thinking you were interested in!

Very much so, thanks! Great help.

[Kull]

ORIGINAL: jonboym

Yeah sometimes I wondered if anyone has ever posted any advice on what to do differently in PBEM vs AI. At the start (turn 2) Japanese players strat won't be apparent so you have to have a flexible plan in place and make moves accordingly but I'd have no idea what what to do differently in PBEM and as I already struggle finding the time to play and read all the key threads and key AAR's I've never dared try PBEM.

That could be a topic all by itself, and like most other strategy discussions, it comes down to personal preference. Typically the human player has more *things* he/she can throw at you, and will usually do so in a more dangerous fashion. The AI can definitely make things interesting, but the cautious human player is really never in danger.

And that's one reason why my personal style (and that of many others who play AI games) is to stay close to the historical examples (thus no Aussie 8th ID) and not do things that will throw the AI completely out of whack. Early game Home island invasions or heavy defense of Java or Palembang keeps the AI from having any chance of success, as it's just not designed to counter completely ahistorical strategies.

I would just caution anyone who ultimately plans to play PBEM predominantly or exclusively, that good strategies against the AI rarely translate over to PBEM play. But a tool like this spreadsheet IS very good at getting the new player accustomed to the feel and the flow of the game, and it's a good time to make the REALLY stupid mistakes (like sending a CV Task Force into battle vs. KB with all the planes set for training missions). Better to learn that vs. the AI!

[Chuske]

Thanks for your reply.

Two more quick questions:-

1) You suggest sending CL Trenton at Balboa to Pago Pago, what role is Trenton intended to fulfil, port defence or are you basing her there to use on convoy defence? Should she get some anti-sub escort at some point?

2) You have xAPs going to evac Dutch troops in various places. What is your general strategy here? Are you trying to get BFs back to major locations like Soerabaja to help build up these big bases or are you wanting actual troops to defend them? Or are you wanting BFs to build up the Dutch islands north of Darwin?

Also do you ever rescue Dutch troops to other areas when Dutch areas fall to the Japanese or do you let them fight it out until they surrender? (ie Are any Dutch units if any long term value)

[Kull]

ORIGINAL: jonboym

Thanks for your reply.

Two more quick questions:-

1) You suggest sending CL Trenton at Balboa to Pago Pago, what role is Trenton intended to fulfil, port defence or are you basing her there to use on convoy defence? Should she get some anti-sub escort at some point?

Cruisers like the Trenton are dead meat against Jap SCTFs but they help to beef up your most critical convoys. Troop convoys and Tanker convoys get a Light Cruiser if I can dig one up, and Pago Pago is a good place to meet up with convoys that have already departed San Fran or LA for Oz (i.e. those already on the move by December 8-10).

2) You have xAPs going to evac Dutch troops in various places. What is your general strategy here? Are you trying to get BFs back to major locations like Soerabaja to help build up these big bases or are you wanting actual troops to defend them? Or are you wanting BFs to build up the Dutch islands north of Darwin?

Exactly. Darwin is so isolated that it's potentially helpful to build a small umbrella in the islands just to the North. Probably a waste of time versus the human player, but it throws a bit of a (small) curve at the AI and gives you (potentially) a lot of small seaplane bases. And the reality is that many Dutch planes and ships don't have anywhere else to go once you've lost Sumatra, Jave, Borneo and the other big islands.

Also do you ever rescue Dutch troops to other areas when Dutch areas fall to the Japanese or do you let them fight it out until they surrender? (ie Are any Dutch units if any long term value)

The "Darwin Umbrella" is the only place I've found where you can move a lot of small Dutch units and have a hope of keeping some of them around. Long term it's never going to be more than an annoyance to the Japanese, but it's also kind of a fun thing to set up and maintain. All the islands are Dutch owned so there no need to spend any PPs in order to move them from one Dutch base to another by seaplane - you can move a surprising number. Beats just watching them all surrender in Java.

[rms1pa]

The "Darwin Umbrella" i

very much something i do against the AI, likely why i "break it".

i tend to steal borneo and celebes forces to ambon and reinforce timor with refugees from every where else.

small bfs to dobo,babar and merope and even hawks can flee the onslaught.

rms/pa

[Chuske]

Thanks for the tips guys

Found something interesting. This post by NY59Giants on obvert's AAR gives some great tips on early war strat with PBEM in mind and in particular he talks about what Dutch BFs he buys out for use elsewhere. I sometimes wonder about learning to play GC by playing at the start in same way as I would in PBEM but avoiding any AI breaking moves to get a decent battle.

Anyway here are the links to NY59Giants tips

fb.asp?m=3582850

fb.asp?m=3578382

[BillSirKill]

Kull... excellent work.. I am starting my first GC...

Your day 2 recommendations: Do you input all of these and then hit end turn or do you piece meal as the game progresses. Reason I ask: I filtered Col B starting with Africa - It took me 3 hrs just to get through Australia.

Also, for some of your LCUs you say to release the some of the restricted units. There does not seem to be a method to release them without attaching them to our HQ's. Can you unrestrict them but maintain the current HQ?

Thanks for your reply
Bill

[Alfred]

ORIGINAL: BillSirKill

... for some of your LCUs you say to release the some of the restricted units. There does not seem to be a method to release them without attaching them to our HQ's. Can you unrestrict them but maintain the current HQ?

Thanks for your reply
Bill

No. Restriction is based on a top down (from HQ) approach, except for scenario designer decisions.

Alfred

[AdmiralFatcat]

Kull---I'm a little confused about the wording you used in the Comments section of the Allied Setup. For many of the "No Action" comments (and others as well) you say "Release with xx PP" or something similar. What do you mean by Release and how do you do it? I have looked but can find no information about how to Release a unit or anything else. Now maybe my eyes are worse than I thought (or my brain is softer, not sure which or both) but what am I missing?

I've had WitP AE for quite some time but always get bogged down trying to complete Turn 2 and give it up. Your spreadsheet is helping me immensely and I believe I will be able to continue playing this fantastic game for a long time to come. Thank you for taking the time to make this very helpful tool.

[Yaab]

"Release with xx PP" means that you pay PPs (political points) to assign a unit to a different HQ. "xx" means the amount of PPs paid for unit may vary i.e if on Dec 8, 1941 you need to pay 50 PPs for unit A, and the unit contains several disabled devices , then its release price will go up as the devices fix themselves.

[Kull]

ORIGINAL: Choltan49er

Kull---I'm a little confused about the wording you used in the Comments section of the Allied Setup. For many of the "No Action" comments (and others as well) you say "Release with xx PP" or something similar. What do you mean by Release and how do you do it? I have looked but can find no information about how to Release a unit or anything else. Now maybe my eyes are worse than I thought (or my brain is softer, not sure which or both) but what am I missing?

I've had WitP AE for quite some time but always get bogged down trying to complete Turn 2 and give it up. Your spreadsheet is helping me immensely and I believe I will be able to continue playing this fantastic game for a long time to come. Thank you for taking the time to make this very helpful tool.

Thanks to Yaab for answering! I should be around more frequently, so if other questions arise, please ask. And there's no such thing as a dumb question.

[Gandalf]

At the risk of seeming necromantic(sp?) for posting here, I have been perusing this Allied Start spreadsheet.

Even though this spreadsheet shows them, there are no Soviet naval units in any of the Dec 7th/Dec 8th scenarios (current versions 1124/1125m of the game).

I'm curious if anyone can shed light on when/if/why they were removed.

The interesting thing is the AE Editor shows them existing, but not being familiar with the editor, I'm not sure how/if they are disabled in some way.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Gandalf

At the risk of seeming necromantic(sp?) for posting here, I have been perusing this Allied Start spreadsheet.

Even though this spreadsheet shows them, there are no Soviet naval units in any of the Dec 7th/Dec 8th scenarios (current versions 1124/1125m of the game).

I'm curious if anyone can shed light on when/if/why they were removed.

The interesting thing is the AE Editor shows them existing, but not being familiar with the editor, I'm not sure how/if they are disabled in some way.

They are there, but you couldn't do anything to them, so they aren't visible. Until the Soviets activate you have very limited interaction allowed with them. You can build infrastructure, train pilots, and upgrade planes. Not much else.

If you want to see the Soviet navy, go into the ship arrival queue and select Soviet. You get a asterisk "pending Soviet activation" notification, but they're all there in August 1945. Earlier than that and showing them would just slow you down.

[Gandalf]

Thanks for the response. [:)]

I was beginning to get that idea after skimming thru the update notes and seeing that they "Auto set the filter to skip over Soviet ships if not active".

I guess that keeps them from displaying on the map also.

edit: thought I had a FUBAR installation and game save, till I read this, but then I ran across the beta 1125m notes and decided to start over anyhow.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Gandalf

Thanks for the response. [:)]

I was beginning to get that idea after skimming thru the update notes and seeing that they "Auto set the filter to skip over Soviet ships if not active".

I guess that keeps them from displaying on the map also.

edit: thought I had a FUBAR installation and game save, till I read this, but then I ran across the beta 1125m notes and decided to start over anyhow.

Yeah, I sorta recall in the pre-patch they were always at the top of the queue, with a 1-day arrival. Every turn I had to turn off the Soviet view to do any work.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: Gandalf

At the risk of seeming necromantic(sp?) for posting here, I have been perusing this Allied Start spreadsheet.

Even though this spreadsheet shows them, there are no Soviet naval units in any of the Dec 7th/Dec 8th scenarios (current versions 1124/1125m of the game).

I'm curious if anyone can shed light on when/if/why they were removed.

The interesting thing is the AE Editor shows them existing, but not being familiar with the editor, I'm not sure how/if they are disabled in some way.

They are there, but you couldn't do anything to them, so they aren't visible. Until the Soviets activate you have very limited interaction allowed with them. You can build infrastructure, train pilots, and upgrade planes. Not much else.

If you want to see the Soviet navy, go into the ship arrival queue and select Soviet. You get a asterisk "pending Soviet activation" notification, but they're all there in August 1945. Earlier than that and showing them would just slow you down.

You can also set them to receive replacements and upgrades, and set new target for them.

[Gandalf]

Seeking Kull clarification

I'm trying to ascertain the spreadsheet's aircraft ASW Patrol, Search 260-280 Level 40, Alt 5k Training 20 meaning?

Once selected, does it mean to override the default ASW arc setting to use the Search arc settings instead?

There are dozens of ASW aircraft using these or very similar shorthand settings.

If set to Search instead of ASW, doesn't that imply JUST an ASW search with no follow up ASW attack, or am I misunderstanding something here? Even without using the spreadsheet, it would be nice to know the difference between the two options.