TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY

[warspite1]

Well it looks like we have no resolution of the attack tonight.

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Well it looks like we have no resolution of the attack tonight.

No. It is close to 1 AM now in Finland.

[brian brian]

Are you playing with some House Rule for a USSR<>Japan pact in place?

No one likes this advice, but if the Japanese attack in 1941 along with the Germans, and especially with Gibraltar lost, then in the Far East the Russians should just ... let the Japanese have it, for the most part. The Japanese can easily block the movement of the resources (Paratroopers, for one, or the Manchurian TERR zipping through their Home Country hexes) even before they take them and can also easily take Vladivostok with Shore Bombardment.

The war in Europe is far more serious. Specifically, the flanks of the USSR - the Caucasus front is magnified even more without Gibraltar, and the connection to the West through Murmansk and Archangel is also critical (British Infantry can help tremendously on that front). It is imperative to move as many factories away from the Germans as possible and to do that you will need rail moves and units to sacrifice to delay the speed of the German advance long enough to move the factories. Units facing the Japanese will accomplish little. I would maybe put a GARR in a citiy and keep a CAV in front of whatever Japanese try to advance towards Chita. Weather and the need for naval activity won't get them very far and then in 1942 the Russian CAV can return and start messing with the Japanese easily enough.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Orm

For the benefit of my memory I post the Japan - USSR ratings needed to DOW. (Germany - USSR has a different ration during 'to DOW in '41)

One must have 4:1 in the common border in '40. 2:1 in '41. 1:1 in '42. 2:3 in '43 and finally 1:2 in '44 and '45)

warspite1

This comment assumes the Germans will turn on the USSR as soon as Gibraltar is taken of course.

The alternatives are:

1. Leave the minimum in Vladivostok and see what happens. Upside: US entry throw, minimal losses when attacked. Downside: Easy victory given to Japan.

2. Fully reinforce the Far East - three units in Vlad 3-4 in surrounding area + 3-4 units along the Manchukuo border to threaten. Upside: US entry throw, potentially more difficult (and expensive) to conquer, aids China. Downside: Those units are desperately needed in the west and WILL be missed. The losses will be expensive.

3. A sort of half way house that may or may not achieve the upsides and potentially lessen the downsides.

My preference (as I say, assuming that the Germans quickly turn East) is to go for No.1. Commit a very maximum of 5 Armies to the East and that is that.

[Orm]

Now that we have had a USSR - Japan pact we should take all the advantage we can get from it. Up till now Japan has been the primary beneficiary. It is worth a lot for USSR, and for the Western Allies as well, to have a secure Soviet Asia. I say that we send what it takes to uphold the garrison throughout 1941. That is if Germany turns towards USSR.

And if Germany does not turn eastwards then even more reason to place units in the East to put some pressure on Japan so that they must, at least, have some units in Manchuria/Korea.

Before the war with Germany aircraft can be used for garrison. Bad motorized units and other units that you do not want to lose. After the war the bad militia can be used and militia whose cities might be lost. And bad garrisons once rebuilt.

I say that this pact should only be allowed to be broken when we want it broken. Not a impulse before that.

Although with that said I think very few of the garrison units should be placed in the Vladivostok region. There are other cities both better used as offensive bases and as defensible positions.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Orm

Now that we have had a USSR - Japan pact we should take all the advantage we can get from it. Up till now Japan has been the primary beneficiary. It is worth a lot for USSR, and for the Western Allies as well, to have a secure Soviet Asia. I say that we send what it takes to uphold the garrison throughout 1941. That is if Germany turns towards USSR.

And if Germany does not turn eastwards then even more reason to place units in the East to put some pressure on Japan so that they must, at least, have some units in Manchuria/Korea.

Before the war with Germany aircraft can be used for garrison. Bad motorized units and other units that you do not want to lose. After the war the bad militia can be used and militia whose cities might be lost. And bad garrisons once rebuilt.

I say that this pact should only be allowed to be broken when we want it broken. Not a impulse before that.

Although with that said I think very few of the garrison units should be placed in the Vladivostok region. There are other cities both better used as offensive bases and as defensible positions.

warspite1

Out of interest what sort of force commitment do you see such a strategy requiring?

[Orm]

Out of interest what sort of force commitment do you see such a strategy requiring?

I suspect fairly low because I suspect Japan has better things to do with their troops.

But if Japan go all in I suspect that 20 points (probably less) will do the trick. That Japan could get more than 40 points in land and air I see as unrealistic.

But if they commit that kind of force against USSR you can imagine that damage they would do to USSR if they get the war. And do remember that you can use the worst units here. Obsolete aircraft and so on.

[Orm]

Japan currently has a total of 27.5 points of land units on the map. Another 7 points in air units. If they empty the reserve pool and use carrier pilots to fly them then they get two more points.

So if Japan place all their on map units as garrison then they get 36.5 and then they do not have one unit in China except the warlords that can't leave.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Orm

Out of interest what sort of force commitment do you see such a strategy requiring?

I suspect fairly low because I suspect Japan has better things to do with their troops.

But if Japan go all in I suspect that 20 points (probably less) will do the trick. That Japan could get more than 40 points in land and air I see as unrealistic.

But if they commit that kind of force against USSR you can imagine that damage they would do to USSR if they get the war. And do remember that you can use the worst units here. Obsolete aircraft and so on.

warspite1

20 points is an awful lot - especially as that pretty much means 20 individual units (MTN aside).

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Orm

Out of interest what sort of force commitment do you see such a strategy requiring?

I suspect fairly low because I suspect Japan has better things to do with their troops.

But if Japan go all in I suspect that 20 points (probably less) will do the trick. That Japan could get more than 40 points in land and air I see as unrealistic.

But if they commit that kind of force against USSR you can imagine that damage they would do to USSR if they get the war. And do remember that you can use the worst units here. Obsolete aircraft and so on.

warspite1

20 points is an awful lot - especially as that pretty much means 20 individual units (MTN aside).

Would you rather have more than 40 Japanese units invading at the same time as Germany?

But the point is really if you want to fight a two front war or not. If you decide for not then I doubt that Japan will push it that far.

[Orm]

A long walk has done little to remove the frustration in the CW high command.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Orm


A long walk has done little to remove the frustration in the CW high command.

warspite1

Well I think we both knew that was going to happen......

The continued fine weather - have you ever known a weather game like this? - just adds insult to injury. And as for our luck at sea......

[warspite1]

But as Scarlet O'Hara said.... Tomorrow is another day [:)]

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

But as Scarlet O'Hara said.... Tomorrow is another day [:)]

I thought that was Bond. [;)]

[brian brian]

My favorite version is from the Detroit artist Niagra, who both paints and fronts a rock band. She says -

Tomorrow is another Night


Or you might enjoy one adapted from one of my most relaxing hobbies, fishing -

Work to game, game to forget work.

[Orm]

Question: Should we pass with all nations except CW?

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Orm

Question: Should we pass with all nations except CW?

warspite1

Yes....then we throw a 10 [:D]

Sorry - was close to failing a morale check but I can laugh at it now.

Yes, I think as ever, we need to play the numbers. And there is nothing that is so desperately urgent (or even close to it) that the Chinese or Soviets need to do that would stop us from trying to get a short turn.

[Orm]

Any ideas on how to progress with CW?

I was thinking of playing a combined impulse with CW.

But then it will be hard or impossible to repair the convoy lines. Although at the moment they are not to damaged, but production will be somewhat reduced.

I was thinking sending out the two TRS in Gibraltar to collect troops to reinforce Gibraltar.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Orm

Any ideas on how to progress with CW?

I was thinking of playing a combined impulse with CW.

But then it will be hard or impossible to repair the convoy lines. Although at the moment they are not to damaged, but production will be somewhat reduced.

I was thinking sending out the two TRS in Gibraltar to collect troops to reinforce Gibraltar.

warspite1

I assumed that was always the plan. Convoys have to wait I'm afraid [&:]

[Orm]

Fnarr, fnarr... he said ass... [:D]


[;)]