Repairing USS West Virginia and USS California

[101Man]

It is October '43 and both ships are in Pearl shipyard repairs on High since Dec 08 '41...WV has a sys/flt/eng damage of 70/39/45 and CA has 73/52/37. Historically the ships were seaworthy to get back to the West Coast (CA in June '42 and WV in May '43)...what did I do wrong? Looks like they would still sink if left out of Pearl.

[Alpha77]

Can you post a pic of the repair screen, that would be the best to troubleshoot seriously ?

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: 101Man

It is October '43 and both ships are in Pearl shipyard repairs on High since Dec 08 '41...WV has a sys/flt/eng damage of 70/39/45 and CA has 73/52/37. Historically the ships were seaworthy to get back to the West Coast (CA in June '42 and WV in May '43)...what did I do wrong? Looks like they would still sink if left out of Pearl.

Most likely a combo of many things.

You should have left them on Pierside repair to get the System damage way down before worrying about major flooding. If you had gotten the system down you could have moved them to the WC semi-safely with flooding in the 50s.

You probably also overloaded PH with other ships needing repair. You might have adjusted priorities on those ships as well, putting them ahead in the queue.

Read this if you haven't. Much will become clear.

tm.asp?m=2990845&mpage=1&key=ship%2Crepair

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: 101Man

It is October '43 and both ships are in Pearl shipyard repairs on High since Dec 08 '41...WV has a sys/flt/eng damage of 70/39/45 and CA has 73/52/37. Historically the ships were seaworthy to get back to the West Coast (CA in June '42 and WV in May '43)...what did I do wrong? Looks like they would still sink if left out of Pearl.

Yes, put them on pierside repairs. That way only sys will repair and will repair faster than if in the yard. If set at cruise speed you are 95% assured that a BB with 50 flotation will make it to the West Coast. (I have sent them with 80 flotation and made it. But don't try it) Get the sys to zero and then move them to the WC asap. Send them to your biggest yards. You generally need Pearl for other repairs.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: 101Man

It is October '43 and both ships are in Pearl shipyard repairs on High since Dec 08 '41...WV has a sys/flt/eng damage of 70/39/45 and CA has 73/52/37. Historically the ships were seaworthy to get back to the West Coast (CA in June '42 and WV in May '43)...what did I do wrong? Looks like they would still sink if left out of Pearl.

Most likely a combo of many things.

You should have left them on Pierside repair to get the System damage way down before worrying about major flooding. If you had gotten the system down you could have moved them to the WC semi-safely with flooding in the 50s.

You probably also overloaded PH with other ships needing repair. You might have adjusted priorities on those ships as well, putting them ahead in the queue.

Read this if you haven't. Much will become clear.

tm.asp?m=2990845&mpage=1&key=ship%2Crepair

I disagree slightly, he should have shuffled them! However, shuffling is difficult (or really just rather slow) at high levels of system damage. I've noticed that ships with high system damage repair very slowly until the system damage gets lower - whether at pier side or in the yards.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

I disagree slightly, he should have shuffled them! However, shuffling is difficult (or really just rather slow) at high levels of system damage. I've noticed that ships with high system damage repair very slowly until the system damage gets lower - whether at pier side or in the yards.

He could have shuffled them, but not everyone considers that technique legit.

[SheperdN7]

Shuffling? I don't think I've heard this term before.

[rustysi]

Its where you take a vessel in/out of the shipyard to get it to repair a bit faster. There was a thread on it a while back, I haven't bothered with it as there's just too little gain for a lot more micro-management. I feel I have enough of that already. I believe it was Lokasenna who uses the method, personally I don't have a problem with its use. Maybe he'll add or point you to the thread when he's back on the site.

[Big B]

Here's the deal - the posters above who said pier side first to reduce sys damage are correct.
Think of it this way - the ships are settled on the bottom (essentially sunk) - if you put them in repair yard right away (which is logical) it's like dragging a wreck to another place.
If you do pier side, think of it as pumping out the water to re-float first (very logical) then when sys damage is low - move it to repair yard for more rapid repairs...but you just don't drag it over there while it's sitting on the bottom.

It may not make sense to you - but that's how it works best.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: rustysi

Its where you take a vessel in/out of the shipyard to get it to repair a bit faster. There was a thread on it a while back, I haven't bothered with it as there's just too little gain for a lot more micro-management. I feel I have enough of that already. I believe it was Lokasenna who uses the method, personally I don't have a problem with its use. Maybe he'll add or point you to the thread when he's back on the site.

I'm playing him, so we've discussed it a fair bit. The gains can be quite substantial, but you do have to keep on top of the shuffling. If you play as a sim you won't like it as it posits an instant shift from on-the-blocks in the yard to pierside, and then back again. Going onto or off blocks is a major evolution in RL, as is securing watertight integrity before flooding the dock.

[szmike]

For me after 1st turn high sys damage ships go to pier, low damage ships go to shipyard. The latter don't use points needed for pierside repairs and are quite quickly repaired anyway to get out of queue.
Pierside repairs also reduce floatation and engine damage, unless it's major. Although major damage under 5 points can be repaired in certain conditions.

As I understand shuffling means ships get repair points from both shipyard and pierside repair efforts, right? I don't see how it could be more efficient overall though, except for some badly needed ships you want to repair asap.

[Yaab]

ORIGINAL: 101Man

It is October '43 and both ships are in Pearl shipyard repairs on High since Dec 08 '41...WV has a sys/flt/eng damage of 70/39/45 and CA has 73/52/37. Historically the ships were seaworthy to get back to the West Coast (CA in June '42 and WV in May '43)...what did I do wrong? Looks like they would still sink if left out of Pearl.

101Man, the blast from the past.

tm.asp?m=3404632&mpage=1&key=

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: szmike

As I understand shuffling means ships get repair points from both shipyard and pierside repair efforts, right? I don't see how it could be more efficient overall though, except for some badly needed ships you want to repair asap.

Shuffling is more efficient because the game engine can transfer percent of effort from pierside to shipyard at the transfer. Since pierside provides up to four sources of Repair Points and Shipyard only one, accumulation is quicker in pierside, even though the accumulation is not toward Major Float. When you shuffle the ship from pierside to shipyard the % accumulated toward gaining a point of repaired status doesn't zero out and is applied to Major Float when it reaches 100% in the shipyard.

That's the method Lokasenna is talking about, from memory.

[szmike]

Thank you for explanation.

That's a lot of micromanagement, ship should start at shipyard, then move to pierside and return to shipyard just before it reaches 100%, so one would have to estimate amount of points added in pierside repairs and keep track of all ships which are supposed to use this trick. [&o]

Still an exploit imho. [:-]

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: szmike

Thank you for explanation.

That's a lot of micromanagement, ship should start at shipyard, then move to pierside and return to shipyard just before it reaches 100%, so one would have to estimate amount of points added in pierside repairs and keep track of all ships which are supposed to use this trick. [&o]

Still an exploit imho. [:-]

Not really. The game imposes a three-day penalty to transfer a ship with floatation damage from dockyard to pierside. I think the comment about it happening instantly is the clearing of the dockyard as opposed to the leaving ship being able to start pierside repairs instantly.

I don't know if all the SY points are available to any other ship you put into the dockyard before that three days has elapsed. If they are, that is a weakness in the model but not a serious one IMO.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: rustysi

Its where you take a vessel in/out of the shipyard to get it to repair a bit faster. There was a thread on it a while back, I haven't bothered with it as there's just too little gain for a lot more micro-management. I feel I have enough of that already. I believe it was Lokasenna who uses the method, personally I don't have a problem with its use. Maybe he'll add or point you to the thread when he's back on the site.

My BB New Jersey that repaired in 60 days instead of 212 says it's not "too little gain" [:'(].

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: szmike

Thank you for explanation.

That's a lot of micromanagement, ship should start at shipyard, then move to pierside and return to shipyard just before it reaches 100%, so one would have to estimate amount of points added in pierside repairs and keep track of all ships which are supposed to use this trick. [&o]

Still an exploit imho. [:-]

Not really. The game imposes a three-day penalty to transfer a ship with floatation damage from dockyard to pierside. I think the comment about it happening instantly is the clearing of the dockyard as opposed to the leaving ship being able to start pierside repairs instantly.

I don't know if all the SY points are available to any other ship you put into the dockyard before that three days has elapsed. If they are, that is a weakness in the model but not a serious one IMO.

It does not. The 3-day time period is for setting the ship to Readiness.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: szmike

Thank you for explanation.

That's a lot of micromanagement, ship should start at shipyard, then move to pierside and return to shipyard just before it reaches 100%, so one would have to estimate amount of points added in pierside repairs and keep track of all ships which are supposed to use this trick. [&o]

Still an exploit imho. [:-]

Not really. The game imposes a three-day penalty to transfer a ship with floatation damage from dockyard to pierside. I think the comment about it happening instantly is the clearing of the dockyard as opposed to the leaving ship being able to start pierside repairs instantly.

I don't know if all the SY points are available to any other ship you put into the dockyard before that three days has elapsed. If they are, that is a weakness in the model but not a serious one IMO.

It does not. The 3-day time period is for setting the ship to Readiness.

OOPS! I got my signals mixed again. Thanks for pointing that out.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: szmike


That's a lot of micromanagement, ship should start at shipyard, then move to pierside and return to shipyard just before it reaches 100%, so one would have to estimate amount of points added in pierside repairs and keep track of all ships which are supposed to use this trick. [&o]

In the interface, top right corner of the ship screen while it's being repaired, there is a line that shows the percent toward the next point accrued in Repair Points. So you just establish a cut-off for your shuffle at some number--90% maybe, and then flip the ship into the yard.

In my discussions with Lokasenna we've only ever talked about doing this for carriers and BBs. It might be worth it for CAs. More than that and it does become quite tedious in terms of micromanagement.

[rustysi]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

ORIGINAL: rustysi

Its where you take a vessel in/out of the shipyard to get it to repair a bit faster. There was a thread on it a while back, I haven't bothered with it as there's just too little gain for a lot more micro-management. I feel I have enough of that already. I believe it was Lokasenna who uses the method, personally I don't have a problem with its use. Maybe he'll add or point you to the thread when he's back on the site.

My BB New Jersey that repaired in 60 days instead of 212 says it's not "too little gain" [:'(].

OK, I didn't remember it being that much of an advantage, and in that case new house rule. You are taking advantage of a weakness in the code. BB's did take a long time to repair no matter which country was doing it. Although I state again, you play your way and I will play mine. It just means we'll never be PBEM opponents. If your opponent hasn't any problem with this way of playing I bow to that. A thousand players, a thousand ways to play.