Lambs to the slaughter (Lowpe (J) vs Jocke; BillBrown (A)) Finished

[Drakanel]

I'm not sure I would try to extract them. If you lose other ships, and planes, and pilots...

I don't know, I'm not an expert and I almost don't know the japanese OOB, but... can't you just rebuild those divisions? Because you can't rebuild your CVs and other ships...

[Lokasenna]

If, on the day of "beachfall" and you're trying to load up... and you can't extract them without getting swarmed by SBDs and TBFs and the like... just leave them. You need your ships more than you need your divisions. They'll almost come back faster if you rebuild them after destruction, too, than if you were to extract about 20 squads and have to rebuild from that because you've got to factor in transit time [:'(].

That said, I do think you should at least try. Leave the naval support squads (assuming you brought them) for last. Pick up your highest-XP divisions first. To that end, I even wouldn't hesitate to drastically underload a TF just to make sure it fully loaded any units I wanted to save in their entirety if I could, while leaving others to die completely.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: Drakanel

I'm not sure I would try to extract them. If you lose other ships, and planes, and pilots...

I don't know, I'm not an expert and I almost don't know the japanese OOB, but... can't you just rebuild those divisions? Because you can't rebuild your CVs and other ships...

And a reply to Lok.

Lets look at this objectively:

1. 14 Divisions and support troops is a large VP gain.[:(]

2. Rebuilding them is a huge supply drain.[:(] Japan can do it once per game, if you have been frugal with supplies and can protect your industry.

3. Buying back all those units is a huge PP drain.[:(]

4. A destroyed unit will rebuild faster and get teleported back to Honshu and be ready for usage in 1 month. [:'(]

5. This game now has morphed into avoiding a 3-1 victory in 1944. DEI oil is very vulnerable now and for probably the next two months. Burma is vulnerable to being cut off.

6. Japan can afford to lose 200 cargo ships attempting an escape.

7. Flying boats cannot air lift portions of expensive PP units to Canada.

8. The Allies can look to merely surround the troops and never attack them - in effect freezing all those units in LA and south. Then I would be short 14 divisions and their support for all of 1943. A very nasty tactic indeed. This was always the peril...the Allies hold down the bulk of Japans unrestricted Army with restricted troops.

For all the above reasons an attempt must be made. Lok is correct.[&o]

[Lowpe]

Making progress at Chungking

I might reverse all that progress, as I forgot to take all the units off attack and I am attacking again today. Oops.[X(]

Ground combat at Chungking (76,45)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 98210 troops, 1195 guns, 467 vehicles, Assault Value = 2728

Defending force 171991 troops, 581 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 2660

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 4

Japanese adjusted assault: 1482

Allied adjusted defense: 1421

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 1 (fort level 4)

Japanese Assault reduces fortifications to 4

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), preparation(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
4974 casualties reported
Squads: 28 destroyed, 538 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 60 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 55 disabled
Guns lost 70 (1 destroyed, 69 disabled)
Vehicles lost 32 (1 destroyed, 31 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
5341 casualties reported
Squads: 108 destroyed, 239 disabled
Non Combat: 136 destroyed, 130 disabled
Engineers: 12 destroyed, 2 disabled
Guns lost 13 (6 destroyed, 7 disabled)
Units destroyed 5

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

1. 14 Divisions and support troops is a large VP gain.[:(]


6. Japan can afford to lose 200 cargo ships attempting an escape.

I disagree. 200 xAKs = minimum 1600 VPs plus the lost shipping capability for later. I think you may only have one run at the coast here to get what you want. A second trip would be lucky for you, and you will need to run them up the coast (probably within view of search planes) to your Canadian bases to have any decent shot at being able to do two evacuation trips.

Whatever you do, don't lose your ships. If you really want to save on the PPs for the buying back and just eat the supply bullet, set up a few 1- or 2-ship TFs to pick up a tiny portion of a unit and get out with it. Setting some DDs or APDs to Fast Transport to do this would be the ideal solution as they are less likely to get sunk with the only remaining fragment of the unit onboard.

[Lowpe]

200 is a lot of ships, but there toast anyway and there is more than enough other cargo ships to see me thru 1944.

Different outlooks...

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

200 is a lot of ships, but there toast anyway and there is more than enough other cargo ships to see me thru 1944.

Maybe if you're planning to lose Sumatra and Malaysia before then [:'(]

[jwolf]

8. The Allies can look to merely surround the troops and never attack them - in effect freezing all those units in LA and south. Then I would be short 14 divisions and their support for all of 1943. A very nasty tactic indeed. This was always the peril...the Allies hold down the bulk of Japans unrestricted Army with restricted troops.

That would be nasty, but it also seems like a gamey tactic.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: jwolf

8. The Allies can look to merely surround the troops and never attack them - in effect freezing all those units in LA and south. Then I would be short 14 divisions and their support for all of 1943. A very nasty tactic indeed. This was always the peril...the Allies hold down the bulk of Japans unrestricted Army with restricted troops.

That would be nasty, but it also seems like a gamey tactic.

But besieging them to starve them, bomb them and weaken them (starving for supplies plus attrition, etc.) before attacking to wipe them out is entirely realistic given how strong a force it is.

[jwolf]

Oh sure I agree completely. The US would have to be slow and deliberate about defeating the pocketed Japanese units. It's just the "turn all of S Cal into a POW camp and then sit there" tactic that I would reject.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: jwolf

Oh sure I agree completely. The US would have to be slow and deliberate about defeating the pocketed Japanese units. It's just the "turn all of S Cal into a POW camp and then sit there" tactic that I would reject.

Japan has the option of attacking unto death.

[jwolf]

Japan has the option of attacking unto death.

Arrgh, should have thought of that! Fits with the wartime character as well.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: jwolf

Japan has the option of attacking unto death.

Arrgh, should have thought of that! Fits with the wartime character as well.

Until they run out of AV, anyway. But then they'll attrit to death.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

1. 14 Divisions and support troops is a large VP gain.[:(]


6. Japan can afford to lose 200 cargo ships attempting an escape.

I disagree. 200 xAKs = minimum 1600 VPs plus the lost shipping capability for later. I think you may only have one run at the coast here to get what you want. A second trip would be lucky for you, and you will need to run them up the coast (probably within view of search planes) to your Canadian bases to have any decent shot at being able to do two evacuation trips.

Whatever you do, don't lose your ships. If you really want to save on the PPs for the buying back and just eat the supply bullet, set up a few 1- or 2-ship TFs to pick up a tiny portion of a unit and get out with it. Setting some DDs or APDs to Fast Transport to do this would be the ideal solution as they are less likely to get sunk with the only remaining fragment of the unit onboard.

I am just catching up, but I tend to agree with this about losing the xAK/xAP. It's not so much the capacity, but the VPs. That's a lot, and there are other factors like the experience gain of ship crews and pilots that do the killing for the Allies that just make them tougher as you go on.

[Olorin]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
8. The Allies can look to merely surround the troops and never attack them - in effect freezing all those units in LA and south. Then I would be short 14 divisions and their support for all of 1943. A very nasty tactic indeed. This was always the peril...the Allies hold down the bulk of Japans unrestricted Army with restricted troops.

You could make a series of shock attacks in the spirit of "BANZAI!" and have them back in Honshu in two months. [:D]

[Lowpe]

Feb 9 1943

Bombing Chungking...they need to do well since I have another deliberate attack coming in with no rest between attacks.[X(]

Meanwhile the fleets approach LA area and suffer four or five sub attacks...but they all miss. Will the air attacks follow.

[Lowpe]

I see you![;)]

[Lowpe]

Unfortunately, one of my fleets moves too close to LA and is savaged by Allied planes. Oops.

The attack at Chungking doesn't do too badly, other than missing to lower forts.

[Lowpe]

Blew a head mainfold gasket on a car the other day, and my brother (of the gamma knife operation a little ways back) had a heart event while he was sleeping.

The monitor caught it, promptly hospitalized, and will get a Pacemaker tomorrow morning.

He has a 3rd degree AV block of a lower heart chamber.

I have the turn, but haven't really started it yet.[:(]

[Lokasenna]

Oh, and here I was going to chastise you for losing good ships I told you not to lose. Now I feel guilty.

Hope your brother pulls through.

As for the car, sounds like a good "you go fix it, son" opportunity. If only...