Battle of South sea - MrKane(A) vs DmitryZ(J)

[MrKane]

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: MrKane

24th Sep - 28th Oct 1942

China:[/b]
Total collapse of defence due complete lack of supplies. My opponent has already break into central plains and I do not see any way to salvage situation.

Considering your position elsewhere the importance in China is in keeping some footholds that can later be expanded. Especially the mountains. Even without supply you might hold there for many months.

Yes it is very good advice. Actually I was thinking about a few turn back. However it is to late, I will never cross plains to get to mountains

[MrKane]

28th Oct - 10th Nov 1942

India:

22nd Indian Corp achieved breakthrough and opened connection to to II Aus Corp in Bombay.

3rd Indian Corp was forced to stop at Nagpur, Corp is still to weak to take city by force.

23rd Indian Corp failed to destroy IJA forces in Panata and now is fallowing Japanese 18th Division towards Calcutta.

Small detachment (3 Arm Rgt) is pushing towards Ledo. I really need this city to reopen air supplies bridge to China.

British torpedo bombers managed to put torpedo into Hiyo on November 6th. It seems to me that this carrier sunk very next day.

Additionally Poona AF was close by 100 B-17 & B-24 around first week of November. Japan has lots over 30-40 fighters in air and 150 bombers on the ground.

[BBfanboy]

Allied Intel always reports any IJN carrier hit by a torpedo as sunk the next day. Were there ground losses of naval aircraft to confirm that?

[MrKane]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Allied Intel always reports any IJN carrier hit by a torpedo as sunk the next day. Were there ground losses of naval aircraft to confirm that?

It cannot be confirmed by air losses, he was taking a lot of losses that day from my fighters. However I think that this carrier is gone because I have noticed +281 VP plus that day.

[BBfanboy]

Another good indicator - good news! [:)]

[Crackaces]

I am not sure "body count" matters much at this point ..
I think the key is not a tactical or even operational metrics . but strategic metrics . have the Allies stopped the IJ initiative and are the Allies on a strategic course toward AV in 1945?

[PaxMondo]

I think the allies are on a course for victory in '44 unless the IJ concede before ...

[Crackaces]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

I think the allies are on a course for victory in '44 unless the IJ concede before ...

Sort of my point .. [8D] the loss or lack of one carrier is not as big as the collapse of the India invasion and trapping of the IJA as an example

[MrKane]

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

I think the allies are on a course for victory in '44 unless the IJ concede before ...

Sort of my point .. [8D] the loss or lack of one carrier is not as big as the collapse of the India invasion and trapping of the IJA as an example

Thanks for giving me credit, however Dimitry is doing quite well. Even if he will loose India, very soon he will have available 20+ very experienced division to free use.

And ....

I have just let my carriers to be baited closer to Suva and I have got bloody nose. Enterprise and Illustrious are sunk. It it is first time when I am so disappointed by my fighters pilots.

So generally landing at Pago Pago has turn in our versions Guadalcanal. He is controlling sea now, and my infantry is left without naval protection. He already send his cruisers to bombard island, however at great cost my PT boats prevent his access to the island. My SBD from VMSB-141 & VMSB-234 managed to sunk one CL and one CA too.

2nd & 3rd November, 1042

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Night Air attack on TF, near Pago Pago at 148,161

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 26 NM, estimated altitude 7,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
G3M2 Nell x 5

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
BC Repulse

Aircraft Attacking:
5 x G3M2 Nell bombing from 5000 feet *
Naval Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb



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Morning Air attack on TF, near Niuafo'ou at 142,162

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 96 NM, estimated altitude 7,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 38 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 20
G4M1 Betty x 13

Allied aircraft
Martlet II x 16
F4F-4 Wildcat x 67

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 6 destroyed
G4M1 Betty: 4 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Martlet II: 1 destroyed
F4F-4 Wildcat: 1 destroyed

CAP engaged:
VF-6 with F4F-4 Wildcat (0 airborne, 11 on standby, 16 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 4 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 1000 and 34000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 52 minutes
23 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-8 with F4F-4 Wildcat (6 airborne, 12 on standby, 17 scrambling)
6 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 2000 and 34000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 46 minutes
25 planes vectored on to bombers
No.881 Sqn FAA with Martlet II (0 airborne, 6 on standby, 8 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 2 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 2000 and 10000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 39 minutes
7 planes vectored on to bombers



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Morning Air attack on TF, near Niuafo'ou at 142,162

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 76 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 26 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 137
G4M1 Betty x 26

Allied aircraft
Martlet II x 10
F4F-4 Wildcat x 61

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 3 destroyed
G4M1 Betty: 2 destroyed, 10 damaged
G4M1 Betty: 2 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat: 2 destroyed

Allied Ships
CV Illustrious
CA Pensacola
BB North Carolina, Torpedo hits 1
CV Enterprise, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
DD Caldwell

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
13 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo

CAP engaged:
VF-6 with F4F-4 Wildcat (9 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
9 plane(s) intercepting now.
9 plane(s) not yet engaged, 5 being recalled, 6 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 1000 and 34000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 40 minutes
VF-8 with F4F-4 Wildcat (11 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
11 plane(s) intercepting now.
10 plane(s) not yet engaged, 11 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 4000 and 10000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 19 minutes
No.881 Sqn FAA with Martlet II (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
6 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 4000 and 11000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 37 minutes

Fuel storage explosion on CV Enterprise


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Morning Air attack on TF, near Niuafo'ou at 142,162

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 79 NM, estimated altitude 6,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 33 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 36
B5N2 Kate x 17

Allied aircraft
Martlet II x 5
F4F-4 Wildcat x 35

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed
B5N2 Kate: 3 destroyed, 4 damaged
B5N2 Kate: 2 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
Martlet II: 1 destroyed
F4F-4 Wildcat: 3 destroyed

Allied Ships
CV Hornet
BB South Dakota
CV Illustrious

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 5000 feet *
Naval Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
VF-6 with F4F-4 Wildcat (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
8 plane(s) not yet engaged, 9 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 2000 and 28810.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 30 minutes
3 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-8 with F4F-4 Wildcat (3 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
11 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 3 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 4000 and 14000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 31 minutes
8 planes vectored on to bombers
No.881 Sqn FAA with Martlet II (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 1 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 4000 and 10000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 35 minutes
5 planes vectored on to bombers

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Morning Air attack on TF, near Niuafo'ou at 142,162

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 39 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 9

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 10

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 4 damaged

No Allied losses

Allied Ships
CV Hornet
BB South Dakota, Torpedo hits 2, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
5 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo

CAP engaged:
VF-6 with F4F-4 Wildcat (1 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
4 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and 13000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 41 minutes
VF-8 with F4F-4 Wildcat (1 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
4 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 8000 and 12000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 45 minutes



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Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Niuafo'ou at 142,162

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 7,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 31 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 72
G3M2 Nell x 4
G4M1 Betty x 37

Allied aircraft
Martlet II x 7
F4F-4 Wildcat x 15

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 2 destroyed
G3M2 Nell: 1 damaged
G3M2 Nell: 1 destroyed by flak
G4M1 Betty: 28 damaged
G4M1 Betty: 6 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat: 4 destroyed

Allied Ships
CA San Francisco, Torpedo hits 1
CV Enterprise, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
CA Pensacola, Torpedo hits 1
CV Illustrious
CV Hornet, Torpedo hits 1
DD Perkins
CL Nashville
DD Reid
CL Honolulu

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x G3M2 Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
3 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
18 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
5 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
9 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo

CAP engaged:
VF-8 with F4F-4 Wildcat (0 airborne, 6 on standby, 7 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 2 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 3000 and 10000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 21 minutes
No.881 Sqn FAA with Martlet II (0 airborne, 3 on standby, 3 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 4000 and 7000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 20 minutes

Fuel storage explosion on CV Enterprise
Ammo storage explosion on CV Enterprise


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Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Niuafo'ou at 142,162

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 7,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 34 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 29
B5N2 Kate x 21

Allied aircraft
Martlet II x 1
F4F-4 Wildcat x 4

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 6 damaged
B5N2 Kate: 1 destroyed by flak

No Allied losses

Allied Ships
CV Illustrious, Bomb hits 4
CV Hornet, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
BB North Carolina

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 5000 feet *
Naval Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
18 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 5000 feet *
Naval Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb

CAP engaged:
VF-8 with F4F-4 Wildcat (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 4000 and 10000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 25 minutes
No.881 Sqn FAA with Martlet II (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters to 4000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 2 minutes



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Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Niue at 146,165

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 68 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 29 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 24
B5N2 Kate x 34

Allied aircraft
Martlet II x 5
F4F-4 Wildcat x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed
B5N2 Kate: 10 damaged
B5N2 Kate: 3 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
Martlet II: 3 destroyed

Allied Ships
CV Illustrious, Torpedo hits 4, and is sunk
CV Hornet, Torpedo hits 2, heavy damage
BB South Dakota, Torpedo hits 2, heavy damage
CA Vincennes, Torpedo hits 1
BB North Carolina, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
18 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
2 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
13 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo

CAP engaged:
VF-8 with F4F-4 Wildcat (0 airborne, 2 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 7000 and 34000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 19 minutes
No.881 Sqn FAA with Martlet II (0 airborne, 2 on standby, 2 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 2000 and 6000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 20 minutes

Ammo storage explosion on CV Illustrious


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Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Vava'u at 142,164

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 57 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 26 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 53

Allied aircraft
Albacore I x 10
F4F-4 Wildcat x 3
SBD-3 Dauntless x 7
TBF-1 Avenger x 15

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
Albacore I: 3 destroyed, 1 damaged
SBD-3 Dauntless: 1 destroyed, 2 damaged
SBD-3 Dauntless: 1 destroyed by flak
TBF-1 Avenger: 6 destroyed, 2 damaged

Japanese Ships
CV Shokaku
CV Zuikaku
BB Hiei

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x TBF-1 Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 22in Mk 13 Torpedo
1 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
1 x Albacore I launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Mk XII Torpedo
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb

CAP engaged:
Akagi-1 with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 7 on standby, 0 scrambling)
7 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 5000 , scrambling fighters between 11000 and 12000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 7 minutes
3 planes vectored on to bombers
Kaga-1 with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 10 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 5 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 5 minutes
5 planes vectored on to bombers
Shokaku-1 with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 9 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 12000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 5 minutes
4 planes vectored on to bombers
Zuikaku-1 with A6M2 Zero (4 airborne, 10 on standby, 0 scrambling)
8 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 12000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 4 minutes
3 planes vectored on to bombers

[PaxMondo]

Nothing wrong with your fighters, he's got 2:1 and more advantage in fighters ... where did all of those fighters come from? 137 fighter escort!!! Even assuming perfect coordination, that's 3 full sentai ... and he escorted heavily several more raids ... he's got every single IJN fighter group there .... [X(]


[X(][X(]

[MrKane]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Nothing wrong with your fighters, he's got 2:1 and more advantage in fighters ... where did all of those fighters come from? 137 fighter escort!!! Even assuming perfect coordination, that's 3 full sentai ... and he escorted heavily several more raids ... he's got every single IJN fighter group there .... [X(]


[X(][X(]

I have got myself 12 hex from Suva and 9 hex from his 2 carriers. Now I know why he does not have enough fighters to protect his bombers in India
About my fighters, well I am custom that at least 1/3 allied fighters will get to bombers, but in this case only 2 British F4F find they way to bombers.

[Bif1961]

I agree with Paxmondo, you were outnumbered in all but one case and your fighters, though good, are not up to the task against well trained Japanese Zeros Sentais. Regarding an earlier posy, VPs come and go and should not be taken as Gospel for evidence of a sinking. Go back to that days combat report for plane loses and see if he lost enough in the GROUND column to be from a carrier that was heavily engaged and may have diverted some to nearby bases. So something in the order that he lost 10 zeros, 10 Vals and 5 Kates in the ground column of the aircraft lost screen is better evidence of a sinking, as you attacked no land targets that would account for IJN plane loses via landbases bombed.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: MrKane
Now I know why he does not have enough fighters to protect his bombers in India

I think you are exactly correct ... [8D]

[MrKane]

11th November 1942 - 1st January 1943.


YEAH we are in 1943 !!!


India:

XV & XXIII Indian Corps completed destruction of 21st IJA Army and managed to encircle 15th IJA Army on swamps east of Calcutta.
Armor units moved by south coast to Bezwada and now are fighting in city Hyderabad.

III & IV Indian corps are besieging towns Jalgaon and Nagpur, there is over 80K Japanese troops block in those places. Mostly artillery and aviation units with 2 infantry divisions.

XXI Indian Corp and I Aus Corp has captured Poona and now are traying to cut off 4 Japanese Divisions retreating from Bombay towards south. All four Divisions are already cut off and there is no way to escape.
Tanks of XXI Ind Corp has managed to take Goa, Bellary, Sholapur and now are 40 miles from Bangalore.

In Air we are fighting over Madras now. 23th FG(P-40K), 24th FS(P-38F) of 20th FG 17th RAF(Spits) and 258th RAF(Hurricane IIc) and are sweeping city defended by 80-100 fighters each day. My opponent is traying to ship out from Madras all still not engaged Japanese units. Only last two days he lost over 60 fighter over Madras and still he raising 80 planes CAP.

Generally speaking India campaigning is over now, there is only a lot of cleaning stuff left.
Till now he lost over 8 divisions including 2 tank divisions and a lot of Regiment/Battalion size units. Additionally 7 other divisions are cut off and are aiming to be doom too very soon.

[MrKane]

East India.

[MrKane]

West

[MrKane]

17th RAF:

[MrKane]

score

[MrKane]

air losses:

[MrKane]

list of aces: