Is UV depth charging too lethal in UV?

Apollo11 · Post by **Apollo11** » Thu May 15, 2003 12:54 am

Hi all,

Have you all noticed that once surface ship finds submarine and starts depth
charging it in 90+ % of cases this results in hits on submarine (and thus its
demise).

Yes, sometimes surface ships do not find submarine (but this mostly applies to
Japanese since Allies have very good chance of finding submarine when there
are several escorts)... but wouldn't it also be hard not to hit submarine once
it is detected?

Why?

Well... we all read many books (and watched many movies) about submarine
warfare both in Atlantic and Pacific and, historically, many many times escort
ships unsuccessfully depth charged submarine for hours and hours...

In UV it seams that once surface ship finds submarine and starts depth
charging the submarine faith is sealed...

What do you think gentleman?

Is this (i.e. current UV behaviour) OK or not?

Leo "Apollo11"

Mike_B20 · Post by **Mike_B20** » Thu May 15, 2003 1:13 am

I think it probably needs some tweaking.

Newbie ASW crews couldn't hit a sub in a swimming pool and veterans rarely miss.

Also, SC's need to be redesignated ST's ( sub targets ) until they reach the magic 55 skill levels when they become lethal...too lethal, then they deserve the name Sub Chasers.

Destroyers and SC's should be harder for a sub to hit in my opinion.

Admiral Scott · Post by **Admiral Scott** » Fri May 16, 2003 12:02 pm

I agree

I would like to see a sub surface sometimes and fight it out against a ship depth charging it, with its deck guns also.

Admiral_Arctic · Post by **Admiral_Arctic** » Sun May 18, 2003 4:44 pm

Are you playing the right game? Maybe Jutland would be more your style?

John Lansford · Post by **John Lansford** » Sat Jun 07, 2003 5:10 pm

I've noticed just the opposite from what's being reported. My US subs keep getting detected by the IJN escorts, but they are getting away with just being damaged.

The IJN, OTOH, isn't faring as well. The USN has sunk two I-boats, but have not detected them nearly as often as I expected they would. I've had six US DD's announce they know a sub is in the area, but they can't find it, even though it just torpedoed a ship. The US subs get found, but not damaged that much, while the IJN subs don't get found, but when they do they get hit pretty bad.

Mr.Frag · Post by **Mr.Frag** » Sat Jun 07, 2003 6:03 pm

John, thats the famous IJN ASW tweek that rendered them hopeless.

If you are playing Japan, use aircraft for ASW, ships are pointless.

Apollo11 · Post by **Apollo11** » Sat Jun 07, 2003 6:55 pm

Hi all,

Originally posted by Mr.Frag
John, thats the famous IJN ASW tweek that rendered them hopeless.

If you are playing Japan, use aircraft for ASW, ships are pointless.

Yes... sad for us Japanese UV players...

BTW, I did manage to sink one US "S" class iwith DD in my current
PBEM as Japanese (Scen #19) but compared to number of misses
this is very very low (and not to mention how lethal are enemy ASW ships and aircraft)...

Leo "Apollo11"

Mr.Frag · Post by **Mr.Frag** » Sat Jun 07, 2003 7:11 pm

Yea, the greatest threat for Allied subs is barges as they try and save on torpedoes and attack with deck guns. Them little barges fight back quite nicely.

pasternakski · Post by **pasternakski** » Sat Jun 07, 2003 8:57 pm

As far as the depth charge accuracy thing is concerned, I think that what we're seeing on the screen is a little misleading. When you get to the point of the actual depth charge attack, you have already gotten past the point where the surface ships have been dropping patterns in response to a sonar echo without zeroing in on an exact location. The fact that the Allied ships are more accurate and do more deadly damage than the Japanese is a reflection of the "tweak" that reduced IJN ASW effectiveness.

Just a guess on my part...

Mike_B20 · Post by **Mike_B20** » Sun Jun 08, 2003 2:41 am

In one of my PBEM games. in the first 3 weeks of play, my IJN opponents destroyers and in one case a cruiser have destroyed 3 of my subs, in deep water, without being detected by air beforehand. The cruiser torpedoed the sub in a failed night surface attack by the sub

Also, in the same game my opponents subs have been runnung rampant, hitting a relatively undamaged carrier (26 sys) with 3 ( !) torps, several destroyers and miscellaneous other craft.
Only twice have the several DD/SC groups I've had patrolling get attacks in for only one sub sunk.

So far. the IJN have neen WAY ahead both in aint-sub ops and submarine effectiveness.
The IJN subs rarely miss and when they hit they invariably get 2-3 torp hits.

These are my observations in that PBEM game against a skillful opponent.

Philwd · Post by **Philwd** » Wed Jun 11, 2003 10:29 pm

In my game as IJN I find my subs have almost always missed. I have had a few depth charge attacks completely miss. My best ASW has been using my AV and CS units as escort carriers; 2-3 per convoy. I spot several subs each turn and have had 2 air attacks sink subs plus a couple other hits. Of course I have now painted big X's on them.

My opponent has been quite successful in SC/DE attacks near Noumea. Plus now he has his B 17s on ASW and their finding my subs every turn

.

I have had a couple of barge ambushes but only light damage to the US sub.

Quark

crsutton · Post by **crsutton** » Fri Jun 20, 2003 11:02 pm

I don't think the Japanese had much historical success during the entire Solomon's campaign. I believe only one Allies sub sunk during the whole show. So don't expect too much.

Ron Saueracker · Post by **Ron Saueracker** » Mon Jun 23, 2003 10:05 pm

Originally posted by Mr.Frag
John, thats the famous IJN ASW tweek that rendered them hopeless.

If you are playing Japan, use aircraft for ASW, ships are pointless.

What are you talking about? The IJN ships, when they actually detect a target, seem to have wire guided ASW torps. They have a really high chance of hitting. Anyway, how many Allied subs were sunk in this theatre in 42/43? Not too many, a grand total of 7. S-39 ran aground on Rossel Island, the Argonaut to DDs off Bouganville, Amberjack and Grampus were lost but the method of loss has not been determined, Triton was most likely lost to friendly (Aussie) forces while entering Brisbane (Allies kept this quiet), Sculpin off Truk to DDs, and Corvina to an I-Boat south of Truk (something that can't occur in UV).

The Japanese suffered 22 sub losses in the theatre from May 1942 to December 1943, the majority being to surface ships. One was sunk by a mine off Bouganville.