4 player E-mail: AAR

AllenK · Post by **AllenK** » Sat Oct 22, 2016 2:12 pm

If you want, I'll try and have a go but will need some instruction for what has to go to certain destinations and what I can leave to the computer or myself to route anywhere that takes the resources.

Orm · Post by **Orm** » Sat Oct 22, 2016 2:22 pm

ORIGINAL: warspite1

If we can't get this to work - and frankly I am jiggered if I know how to get those 3 build points to France - then do we just reduce the Axis build points by the same number that the Allies cannot get (but are entitled to under the rules of the game)?

I can get those BPs to France. But then I have to reduce the resources/BP to CW. Or I can use extra convoy points to get it all. Previously I have used the extra convoy point variant. But a few times this has cost CW by increasing the Axis chances to find. This time I do not see this as a alternative since CW/France are low on convoy points. I planned for US to aid with the convoy points but if I can not get the US convoy points to be used effectively then the whole CW strategy falls. And US spent US entry points on something completely useless.

Orm · Post by **Orm** » Sat Oct 22, 2016 2:23 pm

ORIGINAL: AllenK

If you want, I'll try and have a go but will need some instruction for what has to go to certain destinations and what I can leave to the computer or myself to route anywhere that takes the resources.

Thank you. [:)]

I am sure that you can work miracles. I'll send you a mail shortly.

warspite1 · Post by **warspite1** » Sat Oct 22, 2016 2:26 pm

ORIGINAL: Orm

ORIGINAL: warspite1

If we can't get this to work - and frankly I am jiggered if I know how to get those 3 build points to France - then do we just reduce the Axis build points by the same number that the Allies cannot get (but are entitled to under the rules of the game)?
I can get those BPs to France. But then I have to reduce the resources/BP to CW. Or I can use extra convoy points to get it all. Previously I have used the extra convoy point variant. But a few times this has cost CW by increasing the Axis chances to find. This time I do not see this as a alternative since CW/France are low on convoy points. I planned for US to aid with the convoy points but if I can not get the US convoy points to be used effectively then the whole CW strategy falls. And US spent US entry points on something completely useless.

warspite1

How the hell did you manage that?!?!?!?!? I couldn't get that 'lost' point to do anything......

Orm · Post by **Orm** » Sat Oct 22, 2016 2:38 pm

By rerouting. The computer uses less than optimal convoy lines.

But the trouble is that the program often seems to revert to the less than optimal route when another resource is added to the transport net. So when I have freed up enough convoy points to transport another resource from USA to UK and I order it transported the program decides on a less than optimal route and thereby 'stealing' cps from another transported resource and that one either goes idle or 'steals' more convoy points. At several points I have decreased production by adding another resource that I have enough convoy points to transport.

rkr1958 · Post by **rkr1958** » Sat Oct 22, 2016 2:59 pm

ORIGINAL: Orm

By rerouting. The computer uses less than optimal convoy lines.

But the trouble is that the program often seems to revert to the less than optimal route when another resource is added to the transport net. So when I have freed up enough convoy points to transport another resource from USA to UK and I order it transported the program decides on a less than optimal route and thereby 'stealing' cps from another transported resource and that one either goes idle or 'steals' more convoy points. At several points I have decreased production by adding another resource that I have enough convoy points to transport.

Routing convoy points just shouldn't be that hard!

Jagdtiger14 · Post by **Jagdtiger14** » Sat Oct 22, 2016 3:43 pm

I don't want to suggest an extra burden on Centuur, but in our game he has been gracious in helping correct BP totals.

Perhaps you can prioritize the resources, and leave the BP trade to Centuur if that works better.

The preferred spot Centuur wants to add BP's is for the end of RTB for each side, so Allied BP's at the end of RTB (do not click done)...stay on the Allied RTB phase, just finish your Allied RTB work.

AllenK · Post by **AllenK** » Sun Oct 23, 2016 7:00 am

I had to quit working on the CP's as it was getting late. I think I've found the issue that was causing problems. It's around rules interpretation. Full update to follow when I'm at my PC. If correct, good news is MWiF's default routing was getting it pretty good.

Orm · Post by **Orm** » Sun Oct 23, 2016 8:02 am

good news is MWiF's default routing was getting it pretty good.

I seriously doubt that. [:(]

Although the latest beta version might be better in this regard?

AllenK · Post by **AllenK** » Sun Oct 23, 2016 8:28 am

Rightly or wrongly, and for that someone more knowledgeable in the rules will have to comment, the problem (as far as I can tell after much trial and error) is MWiF isn't allowing the US CP's to transport the 3 US BP's lent to France. It is, however, allowing US CP's to participate in transporting CW or French resources.

Looking at the rules on trade agreements, this might well be correct, or at least what the programme is implementing.

SHIPMENT
Where possible, these resources (or build points) are transported by rail (see 13.6.1). If this isn’t possible, the recipient must provide the convoys required to receive them (exception: the joint Japan-USA convoy, see above). If the recipient cannot provide the convoys, they do not receive the resources (or build points).

That does seem to go against the wording for the Refute Naval War Zones US Entry Option, however.

32. U.S. Refutes Naval War Zones – The U.S.A. may use its own convoy points to ship any resources and/or builds points that the U.S.A. is lend-leasing to any allied major power. These convoy points may be attacked by Axis units even if they are not at war with the USA.

Which should take precedence?

AllenK · Post by **AllenK** » Sun Oct 23, 2016 8:34 am

Right, I'm going back to work on the original file Orm sent me, rather than one of my saves from last night as another nasty little trick I haven't come across before was the programme 'destroying' CP's when I tried to split them using the fly-out form. Splitting from the form you get with Ctrl Left Click was fine.

I don't want to inadvertently have deprived the Allies of some valuable CP's!

AllenK · Post by **AllenK** » Sun Oct 23, 2016 8:59 am

Okay Orm, I undid all the CP moves in the Atlantic region and started with making sure the 3 BP Trade Agreement was working. This meant using 3 CW and 1 French CP along the route. MWiF did the rest of the routing without a problem and used the best routes available.

I've got the 3 French BP's arriving and am up to 26/27 CW BP's. To get the final CW one I need to send the Northern Rhodesian resource to UK. This will take 4 CP's if the route goes through Cape St Vincent (and would trigger an Axis search opportunity) or 5 CP's sending it via Central Med. You currently have 7 CP's in reserve.

Do you want me to send out the US CP's on the East Coast to Faeroes run? That should allow you to recover the CW CP's back into your reserve.

Orm · Post by **Orm** » Sun Oct 23, 2016 9:02 am

ORIGINAL: AllenK

Rightly or wrongly, and for that someone more knowledgeable in the rules will have to comment, the problem (as far as I can tell after much trial and error) is MWiF isn't allowing the US CP's to transport the 3 US BP's lent to France. It is, however, allowing US CP's to participate in transporting CW or French resources.

Looking at the rules on trade agreements, this might well be correct, or at least what the programme is implementing.

SHIPMENT
Where possible, these resources (or build points) are transported by rail (see 13.6.1). If this isn’t possible, the recipient must provide the convoys required to receive them (exception: the joint Japan-USA convoy, see above). If the recipient cannot provide the convoys, they do not receive the resources (or build points).

That does seem to go against the wording for the Refute Naval War Zones US Entry Option, however.

32. U.S. Refutes Naval War Zones – The U.S.A. may use its own convoy points to ship any resources and/or builds points that the U.S.A. is lend-leasing to any allied major power. These convoy points may be attacked by Axis units even if they are not at war with the USA.

Which should take precedence?

Well. MWIF does allow the usage of US convoy points when trading the oil in Alaska to CW, and Canada, where it is saved.

And in my first try I placed the US convoys in a line between USA and UK and that didn't work very well. If MWIF allowed the CW resources to use the US CPs then I wouldn't have had any trouble at all since CW resources use that route as well.

Also, the US entry option only allows US lend-leased resources/BPs to use the US convoys.

Orm · Post by **Orm** » Sun Oct 23, 2016 9:07 am

ORIGINAL: AllenK

Okay Orm, I undid all the CP moves in the Atlantic region and started with making sure the 3 BP Trade Agreement was working. This meant using 3 CW and 1 French CP along the route. MWiF did the rest of the routing without a problem and used the best routes available.

I've got the 3 French BP's arriving and am up to 26/27 CW BP's. To get the final CW one I need to send the Northern Rhodesian resource to UK. This will take 4 CP's if the route goes through Cape St Vincent (and would trigger an Axis search opportunity) or 5 CP's sending it via Central Med. You currently have 7 CP's in reserve.

Do you want me to send out the US CP's on the East Coast to Faeroes run? That should allow you to recover the CW CP's back into your reserve.

I've tried that but didn't get it to work so I would be happy for you to try it. My problem was that I didn't get the US BP to pass through Faraoes. It insisted going through Bay of Biscay and thereby blocking another resource. It was at that point I switched to the save I sent you.

Note that I want the French convoy in reserve so I, or you, will have to change it for a CW convoy point.

I'll be out for a couple of hours.

AllenK · Post by **AllenK** » Sun Oct 23, 2016 10:19 am

I'm not sure now whose CP's are shipping what but I've got the French 3 BP's going through and the CW up to 27 BP's. Even the US ones are possibly contributing as when I tired to take them back to port, it all went pear-shaped. Save file on it's way back.

Orm · Post by **Orm** » Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:29 am

Thank you.

warspite1 · Post by **warspite1** » Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:42 am

Orm can you let me know your plans for this impulse i.e. are you happy to proceed or is there still work to do. This is just so I can plan my next few hours. Thanks.

Orm · Post by **Orm** » Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:59 am

USA and CW send out a few convoys. CW also returns a couple of convoys to base.

HMS Renown leave the port of Alexandria. Will Italy intercept?

Picture from Mar/Apr '41 Impulse #6 (Allied) - Naval Movement

Mayhemizer_slith · Post by **Mayhemizer_slith** » Sun Oct 23, 2016 12:18 pm

Yes please, this impulse we intercept everything [:)]

Orm · Post by **Orm** » Sun Oct 23, 2016 12:30 pm

The interception of HMS Renown fails (die roll: 9). HMS Renown continues to the three box in the West Med.

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