GD1938 Game 25 old VC

[cpdeyoung]

4 April 1938

Developments in the west :

[cpdeyoung]

4 April 1938

Developments in the east :

[cpdeyoung]

4 April 1938

Developments in the Mediterranean :

The Royal Navy was on high alert, expecting an Italian declaration of war at any time when a submarine patrol sighted Italian troop ships sailing in force. The unescorted vessels were equipped for an amphibious landing and it was feared Malta was the target. The Admiralty decided the risk to Malta was too great and asked the government for a quick declaration of war. The government had been preparing for rapid action and notified the Italian diplomats that a state of war was in force. The amphibious force was dispatched and the Mediterranean and Middle East commands began to wage war on the Italian forces,

Benghazi was bombarded by sea and air. Mobile units of the British Army entered Libya, and a patrol line was established.

There was a period of rising tension in this theater and forces of the Italian Army and Air Force were massing on their borders.

Great Britain will enter into peace negotiations, but the Regia Marina must sail to a British port, Alexandria, and allow itself to be interned for the remainder of the negotiations. The perfidy of the Italians was confirmed when maps of Malta and Gozo were found floating in the wreckage of the stealthy freighters.

[cpdeyoung]

4 April 1938

Developments in China :

The Imperial Japanese Navy is very active in Chinese waters. Naval bombardments are doing harm, but we know the invaders are using a lot of oil in these maneuvers. China has lost 469 conscript units, a sad loss indeed, but the Japanese are not coming off unscathed. China intends to wage war so as to cause the maximum damage to the enemy. We intend to develop armor as soon as we can, and will be forming more advanced ground units. We want the Japanese to know that they have made an enemy for the long term.

To the Soviets : We look forward to the day when our peoples can aid one another against the aggressor states. We understand that you must not wage war on our enemies, but there is much we might do that does not involve open warfare. We are already flying your quality fighter aircraft against the Japanese!

As to little border incidents, do not worry about them, comrades.

[tortugapower]

ORIGINAL: cpdeyoung
The Royal Navy was on high alert, expecting an Italian declaration of war at any time when a submarine patrol sighted Italian troop ships sailing in force. The unescorted vessels were equipped for an amphibious landing and it was feared Malta was the target. The Admiralty decided the risk to Malta was too great and asked the government for a quick declaration of war.

From the looks of things, I think you would make a fine German player. This was a really aggressive move, declaring war on a neutral and completely uninvolved nation. In fact, I didn't know that the Allied nations even possessed the power to declare war arbitrarily like this. Good to know for the future.

Especially seeing how Germany is currently contained, I'm not sure the actions here are justified. Movement of troops to/fro overseas is a common occurrence, and it would be a highly scrutinized incident were the British to sink neutral troop ships.

Especially, dear God, they were unescorted! That's a big pill to swallow, that an admiral would open start a war against unarmed targets.

[cpdeyoung]

Italy is a great power, aligned with Great Britain's enemy, and with a massive military presence on France's border. Great Britain has chosen to declare war on Italy, as is her right under the protocols of war and peace. The Kremlin has made it a policy to intimidate or attack her neighbors to gain military advantage. Her actions against smaller nations should make the USSR hesitate to comment on a war initiated by Great Britain against a power fully capable of defending herself. As Mussolini extended his naval forces from the Italian coast to the Spanish coast he knew that he would draw the interest of British planners.

The cargo ships sighted by our submarines were not simply moving troops from one place to another. They were loaded in a way to enable amphibious assault. The crucial strategic asset of Malta is protected by the Royal Navy interdicting any enemy vessels carrying assault forces. The military axiom counsels leaders to judge capabilities not intentions. Any nation positioning amphibious forces within range of Malta must be aware that the RN take such actions very seriously.

The Royal Navy is not paid to be nice. (see : Altmark incident, and the action at Mers-el-Kébir). For questions as to why troop carrying vessels are sailing unescorted please ask the Regia Marina. There is no excuse we can think of. Escorted or not, no vessels capable of assaulting Malta are given safe passage to sail into the Grand Harbour at Valetta and begin unloading troops.

Royal Navy destroyers picked up many survivors from the troop ships. These were armed soldiers of the Italian Fascist state, sworn to execute the orders of the Italian government, and its Duce. There were no tourists, or civilian passengers aboard. These troops knew as they loaded their howitzers into the hold what the risks were. States maintain armed forces to fight, and the Fascists and our troops will now have their innings. Italy was not "neutral and completely uninvolved", and war would have come soon enough in the form of an attack on Great Britain or France.

Germany is currently contained

Germany is "challenged". Germany is "opposed". Germany is hardly contained. The brutal attack by the USSR on eastern Poland has weakened that brave people's resistance and the large forces Germany has deployed there are capable of taking Poland eventually. We hope it takes the Wehrmacht a year to defeat Poland, but realistically it will take much less time. The center section of the Maginot Line has beed reduced to rubble by Luftwaffe bombing and artillery bombardment. If Italy attacks France the battle in the west will be brutal.

While the Soviets observe we fight, and we will take every opportunity to defeat the forces opposing us.

[tortugapower]

You're using your in-game voice, but I'm not. (Although I see you enjoy using rhetoric "challenged, opposed" haha. The PR campaigns in these AARs will be fun.)

To put this in historical context: the Munich Agreement has not happened yet, so the last antagonizing action from the Italians is the invasion of Ethiopia (1935) -- the Allies impose sanctions and move on. I don't think Italy demanded territory from France until after the Munich Agreement. Tensions exist, but the "peace in our time" mentality prevailing in Great Britain is, simply put, exactly the opposite of what is happening here.

HOWEVER. I understand it's a game and we can't be entirely shackled by history. My initial comments were negative towards this, but I really ought to wait to see what Rufus says, because in theory a weakened Axis is beneficial to me. [:D] If he's okay with it, game on!

[ernieschwitz]

I read somewhere that the British actually considered declaring war on Italy before they did it to them. Something about a surprise war in Libya and Ethiopia being beneficial to them. Not sure if it was so, but thats how I remember it.

[cpdeyoung]

@tortugapower,

This game started with a full scale assault by Germany in January 1938, so I think chronology will be a little strained. The "peace in our time" period ended at that point. Germany did not wait for England and France to declare war on her, rather she declared war on France and England deliberately, beginning what has turned into a successful bombardment of the Maginot on turn one. You did not comment on that piece of unshackling from history so I am surprised by your choice to comment on my perfectly legal DoW on Italy. America is restrained by isolationism, but all the other powers are in a state of realpolitik, and I will bet Rufus never thought Italy was in any way "protected" by his pause in bringing her into the war.

I did think it was necessary to disagree with your choice of "contained" to describe Germany. Rufus took a very bold, very unhistorical step by attacking so soon. Germany has not worked up her strength yet, and it is difficult to gauge the success of her ploy, but Germany is a very dangerous enemy, and if Rufus felt she were contained he would be deeply discouraged.

This is Chuck speaking, but the government of Great Britain would say the same.

Enjoy the flow, it is all good.

Chuck

[tortugapower]

Thanks, Chuck. I speak only out of curiosity and to preserve the initial game balance. If the Axis never get out of the blocks, it'll be a short game.

I have to bite my tongue, though, as I have simply no idea what the game balance is like in GD 1938. In fact, and what's worse, I'm basing a lot of my game balance intuition on multiplayer series from Hearts of Iron 3, and these are wildly different apples and oranges.

Also, and selfishly, the Soviet Union is usually the biggest victim of a dud Axis power. By that I mean she never gets to become a "victim" of Barbarossa [;)]

ORIGINAL: ernieschwitz
I read somewhere that the British actually considered declaring war on Italy before they did it to them. Something about a surprise war in Libya and Ethiopia being beneficial to them. Not sure if it was so, but thats how I remember it.

Interesting! That sounds like one of those historical tidbits you'd have to pick up from just the right book. I'm not an expert on World War 2, just the usual reading books and watching documentaries, but I've never heard mention of this.

[RufusTFirefly]

Chuck, I am not sure what game you are playing. First you told you want some game closer to historical situation and were hoping to see some late date of this war.

But how does it fit with giving British troops to Japan, sending US forces to Scapa Flow (can see a green unit symbol, but cannt see what is inside).

Btw, the Italien ships were on the way to Italy, carrying units from Africa. As African corps needs too much supply and I had to keep in mind that Royal Navy can cut off supply lines to N-Africa at any time, I decided to send units back to Italy. Havnt excepted an early DoW of Britain. This is another point where I cannt see that you are interested in a historical setting rather than in winning in any possible way (which in terms of game is completely ok, but not what we had been intended at start).

[cpdeyoung]

Rufus,

You began the game with a declaration of war on Great Britain and France 21 months before the historical pattern. In the "real" war the British and French declared war on Germany nearly two years after your "reverse" declaration. You explained that you wanted to do this not to be "closer to historical situation" but rather for game winning purposes.

I assume you meant China when you wrote "Japan". The British have given the Chinese 4F1, a unit of fighters, much like the very historical "Flying Tigers". Somehow I suspect this perfectly legal gift is not going to change the game, but I will, reluctantly, have the Chinese give them back if you request it. In no way is this something you should be asking for; it is legal and common enough in GD1938.

The United States is fully neutral and there cannot be a US unit on British territory. There may be a sub in European waters - so what. Subs can be on any sea hex the USN wants. There are no "boundaries" at sea, and I will sail this sub, or another to waters near Hamburg if I wish. Expect to see them soon.

I ship troops to and from Africa by Strategic Movement, or Transfer. I do not do it with an amphibious load. Why would you have cargo ships loaded with troops in easy range of my territory, and not expect me to be worried? Strategic Movement and Transfer work great and involve none of the risk that got your troops killed.

Great Britain and France are battling Germany and Italy. Japan is battling China. Four months after France is attacked Italy is also at war. The USSR has taken Poland, very historical, but not in your scheme of things. Except for the fact that we are almost two years ahead of schedule how is this different than the actual World War Two?

I am "not sure what game you are playing"? I am playing a pretty plain vanilla Allied defense against a rather common Axis pattern. Except for my Frenchmen smashing through your lines. This glorious achievement is what nearly everyone thinks the French should have tried in the "phony war" period. What is the problem?

Chuck

PS: Lets get back to fighting the war on the map, and not in the forums. Why would you expect my play to be different?

[RufusTFirefly]

Chuck,
sounds like you feel offended. If it is like this I apologize. It was not my intention. Maybe I have chosen the wrong words (I am not a native speaker).

You like to play a game where we can move on to late war and see some late war technologies. I like that idea. So I thought you would follow some strategy that would be like the historical appeacement politics.

The main problem I see in this scenario is that it has become unbalanced. No need to say it is difficult to find a good balancing. I know that this is very difficult to achieve and at the same time to provide enough flexibility in gameplay to make any new game a bit different from previous ones. This scenario had been very good in the beginning. Some changes even made it better; it had been an exellent game after some updates. But too often players had claimed Axis would be too strong. Now minors have been increase in strength and it is no longer possible for Axis to overrun them. But, as I pointed out sometimes before, a quick success for Axis is essentiell in my eyes. If it takes too long for Axis to take most of western Europe, the Western Allies get too strong. An early war entry of USA even might spoil the game, as Axis will be in a defensive position quite early and the game will end soon.

Anyway, we have an early war not only in mid Europe but in southern part and in N-Africa as well. Lets play it out.

With regards to the support of Britain for the Chinese you are absolutely right. I forgot about the Flying Tigers, but of course I know about them. No need to remove them in our game. It is not only a challenge but it is even a historical path we are moving on here.

And you are right that strategic transfer of Italien units would have been better. I had not made up my mind where to unload and wanted to avoid first transfer by ship and then by rail.

As you already said, lets fight on the map and not at forum.

[cpdeyoung]

Rufus,

I certainly know what you mean about the difficulty of the Axis and the newly strengthened minors. I also feel it is too hard to achieve what the Germans did with facility.

Your English is excellent and I have never felt any concern about communicating with you. I am like you in wanting this to be a fun game for all three of us.

The tiny unit of four FI fighters will fly under Chinese colors. I am sure these brave pilots will die soon enough. The British will maintain a small unit of aircraft in China, replenishing it as necessary.

It will be a while till the Americans can rid themselves of isolationism, and I will not push it. In 20 tries the USA has a about a 90% chance of ending isolationism, in 25 tries about 97%. In order to prevent a lucky break from changing the course of the war I will agree to not enter a war in Europe until January 1940, unless the USA is attacked. If I get out of isolation I will send supplies to Great Britain, and the USSR if they become allies, even if I do hold off entering the war. This will give the Germans and Italians two years from war start without a war with the USA. Two years after war start in the actual war was September 1941 and the Germans were approaching Moscow. You may be in the same position.

Let me mention a condition that will alter the actions of the USA. If any Axis power enters the western hemisphere the USA will go to war as soon as possible. Japan should not look at Mexico. Germany should not look at Argentina. The American people support the Monroe Doctrine and will rise up in fury at encroachments on the Americas.

The French and British will continue to fight alone. The hole you have created in the Maginot is discouraging. So much inter-war effort to be reduced so soon. Your Germans and Italians always have to watch the Soviets hovering in the East. I look forward to seeing how you handle your strategic, and operational issues. I hope to give you a battle.

Chuck

[cpdeyoung]

2 May 1938

The Soviets stab Poland in the back, again!

[cpdeyoung]

2 May 1938

The Battle of the Atlantic starts.

[cpdeyoung]

2 May 1938

Warfare continues in Chinese waters.

[tortugapower]

Some of Stalin's advisors are nervous to approach to him with the latest news. After reopening the war with Poland, Krakow has been secured and surely this can be used as a bargaining chip for some kind of Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact. But with it, the wretched shape of the Russian air units is exposed. If the Polish fighters have such success against the Russian bombers, surely a modernized air force would brush us aside.

[cpdeyoung]

30 May 1938

In Europe the Germans have pushed the French out of Strasbourg, and the Battle of France looks to begin. In Poland the brave defenders fight on two fronts as the Soviets and Germans vie to see who will take the most territory. The Polish resistance makes clear how difficult it is to overcome even one of the smaller powers. The French have benefitted from the long battle in Poland.

In North Africa the Italians hold at Tripoli, but the forces which were driven from Benghazi have been destroyed. The Germans and Italians are studying the new British technique of "Lightning War" in which mixed Armor-motorized infantry formations strike in the rear of more static units. The British have long been leaders in tank warfare, and military analysts say the new mode of warfare will be important in this global war.

At sea the Royal Navy does not overextend itself even though the Regia Marina had significant forces in the western Med, near the front lines between Italy and France. When the RN is ready it will strike. In the Atlantic some U-boats are found, but the others prove elusive. Great Britain has no shortage of supplies, with 13 months cached.

President Roosevelt has been successful in convincing the American people to abandon isolationism [ This is very early. However the USA will not become active till January 1940, unless attacked. ] The US has not offered an alliance to Great Britain or France.

In China the Japanese losses mount up. China wonders if a peace offer might be on the way from their enemy. The ample Chinese manpower means replacements are easily keeping up with losses.

------ End of report ----- analysis begins -----

Wow, Isolationism breached so soon. The wait till January 1940 will help somewhat.

With such an early start it is hard to judge Axis progress. The Maginot hole and Italian attack will make the Battle for France much more difficult for the defenders. The European Axis is beginning to get their minors lined up, and the German economy must be beginning to crank. The next six months will be interesting.

Chuck

[tortugapower]

What is the effect of end of isolationism for the USA?

edit: also, in case it's unrelated, what is the significance of the Jan 1940 date?