Found a better way to play

[Stelteck]

If someone want to test a smaller alternative to WITE, i found decisive campaign: Barbarossa really fun with its original "pain in the ass officers' mood" management / decision system.
The scale is smaller though, it cover only 1941 and the beginning of 1942.

[Blond_Knight]

Well clearly its a labor of love, but being color blind AND old I can barely read the numbers on the Soviet counters.

Thanks for the insight guys.

[timmyab]

I don't think that hills should be a significant feature of the Moscow area. The same goes for the rest of Northern Russia, including the Valdai region.
Some areas in the South are hilly enough to be militarily significant at this scale, but Russia is more or less flat at the strategic level.

[Michael T]

Those perceived hills/rough are not actually hills/rough, they are supposed elevation differences, i.e. a flat plain raised above the ground below. However they have NO impact on play. Purely aesthetic. Not my idea of aesthetic though. As to the counters and the fine text. I complained that black text on red background was very difficult to read and perhaps some other colours would be better. I was ignored.

[wodin]

I didn't play the other games but I have heard it has things missing from them. Which surprises me. I'd have thought more stuff would have been added not less. Plus the UI I find isn't the easiest either.

I'm hoping in time the SChwerpunkt game gets some more detail and features.

As for GGWITW. I kind of understand about it being hard going, however sometimes you have to put in some effort to get the rewards and I'm sure once you get to grips with it I can't see any other game at the scale coming close.

Now what do I prefer, easy to learn but maybe abit to sparse in features or hard to learn and maybe to many features...I think I'd go for the second as the game can only get better the more I learn. Saying that my real preference is somewhere in between. Maybe alot fo things going on under the hood and you can see but doesn;t require half an hour of consideration and an endless amount of clicks\choices to consider. So has the depth and detail but is easy to understand and learn\play.

ORIGINAL: Michael T

In many respects WWIIiE has gone backwards in relation to AGW. Spartan is a good word for it. And Spartan even compared to modern board games.

Just a couple of WWIIiE spartans:

Very simple supply rules.
Every town/city on the map is the same type/size (they only vary in the number of hexes) So some tiny little village has the same effect on combat as a Stalingrad hex.
HQ's although included in the game have virtually no impact at all.
So no C&C
No factories to move or protect.
No password protection for PBEM
No upgrades of units as the war goes on.
I could go on.... and on.

[wodin]

For me, the best wargame developed that's not tactical (scale I love) by a long way. Sadly looks like it will be a one off..unless Vic decides to pick up where lancer left.

ORIGINAL: Stelteck

If someone want to test a smaller alternative to WITE, i found decisive campaign: Barbarossa really fun with its original "pain in the ass officers' mood" management / decision system.
The scale is smaller though, it cover only 1941 and the beginning of 1942.

[Michael T]

I thought with AGW he was on the right path. Parts of that game were very good. It was still buggy though and the Naval side of it was very poor. But ground combat, air support, C&C and advanced logistics (optional rule) worked well. I figured WWIIiE would improve on AGW and I had high hopes for it. But WWIIiE has gone backwards in relation to Logistics and C&C. Also some aspects of Air Support have been deleted (Interdiction). The Naval side of it is still woeful. From what I see he seems to have spent a lot of time producing dozens of different small scenarios rather than developing a sound design (AGW)in to a polished and improved product. Shame as it could have filled a nice non micro management niche if he had of done it better. But perhaps he might get there if he keeps working on it.

[Michael T]

What about this, 'Drive on Moscow'. I am curious. Anyone know anything about it?

[Grubwurm]

Honestly not picking either apart the game is easier for me to play and have fun.

WitE is a job with still bugs don't tell it it isn't and the grand campaign is still bad AI.

Yet instead of making it better they want to do a V2 and make everyone pay again yea I like that idea.

It will still be buggy and the AI will lack.

WWIIiE Has 3 fronts is still being worked on and it not costing a whole new price for it.

WitE is done and they will want you to pay again for what should have been done in the first version.

End thought WWIIiE is fun and and is not chore to play and I don't have to pay for a whole new one to get what should have been in the first one.

I quit buying into battlefront's CM2 idea of what should be patches instead on expac's that are almost as much as the game.

[EwaldvonKleist]

@Grubwurm:
There is no comparable game to WITE, and if you compare the price to the playing time its really cheap.
WITE has some flaws and strange design decisions IMO (especially in the supply system) but WITE 2 has the chance to do it better and it still works good in WITE. Such a bib software project will always contain bugs. It is outstanding that they get still fixed &the game is improved all the time 6 years after release.
According to the WITE 2 thread it is basically a new game, so what is wrong to pay again for it? Do you want the designers to work for free?

The step to a new game is a possibility to change some things radically, while what you suggest (improving WITE 1) would be incrementally, making some major corrections unlikely.

[Michael T]

@Grubwurm, from what I see most WITE players play the 41-45 campaign. Ron's game does not have a CG 41-45.

FYI Ron's game does not have INF Corp. It also has a lot of units on the map that WITE does not. So if it ever does get a 41-45 game the counter density will be horrendous. Not to mention it won't be play tested at all.

I hope you enjoy Ron's game. But really you cannot compare a package of small scenario's with the entire East Front CG. I believe Ron's game now has a Barbarossa Scenario that goes for 1941, but that's it. And as far as I can tell no one has ever reported on any forum as playing it. People have tried and given up, me being one of them.

Where as I have played over 20 CG's of WITE. WITE has no PC equivalent that I know of, that being a operational game that goes all of 41-45. ATM there is only one horse in the race.

[Grubwurm]

I can't get the game to do what the tutorial and the boot camp says it should do.

Tried of fighting it to get it to do what it should.

As far as the V2 being totally new until anybody actually plays it we can't really say what it will be.

I am going back to what the thread was about to begin with with-in hours I was playing as opposed to days and still struggling with the game mechanics.

I am not a multi-player kind of person especially with mega campaigns spanning months or maybe a year.

The whole point of the thread was it was a better game for me.

I do support Matrix with my buying games from them but have had probs with both WitP AE and WitE + DLC's.

I bought it to play not spend more time learning the UI/menus and getting the functions to work right.

I wanted WitP AE to work for me as a start and I hoped WitE would be a easier to handle I was wrong my bad but I still bought it.

[SuluSea]

Two of my favorite games are WITE and WITP AE as I mentioned previous times before. If you're enjoying your game choices who is anyone to argue? I do believe if you invest the time learning the games they will be very rewarding. I advise peeps to learn one game mechanic at a time before moving on to the next. I play AI only and enjoy the daylights out of it. I started playing the Soviets last year and it was like a completely different game.

I prefer the full campaign but IMO the road to scenarios are a complete blast and little management is needed.

I hope you consider revisiting the titles at a later date so you can get some return on your investment.

All the best to you! [:)]

[Grubwurm]

WitP AE is just too much micro. WitE though is not doing the things it says it should and I can't figure out why.

Asked on both Matrix and Steam never got a straight answer to the reason why close air support isn't working on hasty attacks.

Yet videos and tutorials all says it does well I haven't seen it.

I don't get the rail const units to work right and hence lack of supplies makes for a dull german attack after they make nice breakthrus.

After trying several times and watching others do what wasn't working for me I gave up.

Not really into doing the russkies especially since the AI on defense sucs.

[IainMcNeil]

Grubwurm there is no issue talking about other games but not while trashing one of our games, especially the most loved game from the most loved designer in our line up. Thread locked and take this in to account for next time.