Tale of the Sheep! - JocMeister (A) vs. Lowpe (J)

[jwolf]

I grew up (mostly) in Southern California. It seems really weird to think of Japanese invaders there. Glad to see you're wiping them out. With the enemy collapse at Santa Ana, the rest should follow much more quickly, very good news.

[crsutton]

It was a bold if not crazy move into the US. I just wonder how he thought he could overcome three armored division. Now don't you wish you could take those division overseas with you? [;)]

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

It was a bold if not crazy move into the US. I just wonder how he thought he could overcome three armored division. Now don't you wish you could take those division overseas with you? [;)]

I don´t think he looked into the emergency reinforcements. He said something about it spoiling the surprise. [X(]

If I could use those divisions...oh man!

[Crackaces]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

It was a bold if not crazy move into the US. I just wonder how he thought he could overcome three armored division. Now don't you wish you could take those division overseas with you? [;)]

I think the game plan was not to overcome anything but to do a smash and grab .. but got contained and crushed ..

Now its gets interesting ...[8D]

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: Crackaces
Now its gets interesting ...[8D]

Yeah, I have to be wary of complacency going forward. While the IJA is pretty much removed from the game for a long time the IJN is still a very potent force.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

ORIGINAL: Crackaces
Now its gets interesting ...[8D]

Yeah, I have to be wary of complacency going forward. While the IJA is pretty much removed from the game for a long time the IJN is still a very potent force.

It has not. Don't get ahead of yourself.

[Crackaces]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

ORIGINAL: Crackaces
Now its gets interesting ...[8D]

Yeah, I have to be wary of complacency going forward. While the IJA is pretty much removed from the game for a long time the IJN is still a very potent force.

It has not. Don't get ahead of yourself.

Let us say he saved a fragment from each of the units to avoid the time in the queue and political points of rebuilding from scratch.

1) Fragments have to make their way to a base where at least 25,000 supplies are amassed. This base also must be kept supplied for thousands of supplied drawn down during the replacement process.
2) This also assumes that the pools have generated enough vehicles and armaments in the pools to replace. Give some time here in this stage.
3) These units will be at the national training level. If they are not just experience builders for Allied units they will have some time in training mode.

Given no previous plan to build the units back, needing to move them to the supply center, take replacements, train ... I say 6 months ..
unless these units are headed to China or someplace like that ..a 40 exp unit is good fodder in the jungles of Burma I guess ..

Meanwhile The Allies toys grow in numbers ..And I am now convinced that the DEI is the route to take with a DBB based scenario ..The rebuilding of IJA divisions will eventually be a bane when the supplies go low

Also .. The Allies right now are

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

ORIGINAL: Crackaces
Now its gets interesting ...[8D]

Yeah, I have to be wary of complacency going forward. While the IJA is pretty much removed from the game for a long time the IJN is still a very potent force.

It has not. Don't get ahead of yourself.

He has 5 divisions in Burma. None in SOPAC, none in the DEI, none in NORPAC and none in CENTPAC. That is pretty much removed in the grand scheme of things. Obviously SIGINT has probably missed one or two and he has some regimental sized units. The fall of Chungking probably freed up some units as well.

But short term the IJA is not posing a threat to allied forces anywhere on the map.

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

ORIGINAL: JocMeister



Yeah, I have to be wary of complacency going forward. While the IJA is pretty much removed from the game for a long time the IJN is still a very potent force.

It has not. Don't get ahead of yourself.

Let us say he saved a fragment from each of the units to avoid the time in the queue and political points of rebuilding from scratch.

1) Fragments have to make their way to a base where at least 25,000 supplies are amassed. This base also must be kept supplied for thousands of supplied drawn down during the replacement process.
2) This also assumes that the pools have generated enough vehicles and armaments in the pools to replace. Give some time here in this stage.
3) These units will be at the national training level. If they are not just experience builders for Allied units they will have some time in training mode.

Given no previous plan to build the units back, needing to move them to the supply center, take replacements, train ... I say 6 months ..
unless these units are headed to China or someplace like that ..a 40 exp unit is good fodder in the jungles of Burma I guess ..

Meanwhile The Allies toys grow in numbers ..And I am now convinced that the DEI is the route to take with a DBB based scenario ..The rebuilding of IJA divisions will eventually be a bane when the supplies go low

Also .. The Allies right now are

Yeah, if he got fragments out they are probably heading to the HI right now waiting for the parents to be destroyed. If he didn´t get anything out he will have to wait until they are destroyed on the WC which will give me even more time.

What Jeff needs now is a decisive naval victory to slow down Allied expansion. I will try and avoid that! [X(]

[JocMeister]

[font="Verdana"]IJA Divisions[/font]
_____________________________________________________________________________

---------------------
West Coast
---------------------
1st Division
2nd Division
4th Division
9th Division
12th Division
14th Division
16th Division
21st Division
48th Division

5th Guards Division
6th Guards Division

1st Tank Division
2nd Tank Division

---------------------
Burma
---------------------
5th Division (Cox Bazaar)
18th Division(Cox Bazaar)
19th Division (SIGINT Pegu)
25th Division (Imphal)
38th Division (Cox Bazaar)

Imperial Guards Division (Paoshan)
4th Guards Division (Cox Bazaar)

---------------------
SOPAC/CENTPAC/NORPAC
---------------------
None

---------------------
Other
---------------------
33rd Division (Chungking)

[JocMeister]

[font="Verdana"]Solomons[/font]
_____________________________________________________________________________

We are making good progress here completely unopposed. Allied naval presence here will be scaled down shortly as most of the navy will depart together with the assault shipping.

Troops are already prepping for Rabaul. That is some months off though. Before that we have to crawl into range. Biggest IJA unit in the area is a regiment at Rabaul.

[JocMeister]

[font="Verdana"]Burma[/font]
_____________________________________________________________________________

So the Japanese was a bit stronger in Burma than I thought. I´m still much stronger though in air, sea and land though. The IGD is too far away to influence things though and the 25th Division is isolated at Imphal. They don´t know it yet but they are about to be stricken from the Japanese OOB anyway.

This means I have about 4 divisions to tend to on the Burmese coast. The 18th and 4th Guards have been decimated by naval bombardments. The 5th Division was a nasty surprise though. My Cox landing was a total fiasco as I´m now on my 8th (!) day unloading and stil havn´t unloaded everything. Disablements are about 50% which is what about what I expected. Problem was that unloading was so slow that Jeff had time to reinforce. Not my brightest moment.

I do have enough forces to roll over the Japanese though. Especially with naval and air supremacy. Need to pull the navy out soon though as I´m pretty sure Jeff will send the KB here to try and sink some ships.

-------------------------
Allied Forces
-------------------------
2nd British
18th British
70th British (PR) (Strategic reserve)

7th Indian (Strategic reserve)
9th Indian
11th Indian (Strategic reserve)
14th Indian
17th Indian
19th Indian
20th Indian (R) (Strategic Reserve)
23rd Indian
25th Indian
26th Indian (R) (Strategic Reserve)
44th + 45th Indian BDE

1st Marines
32nd US

6th Australian
7th Australian
9th Australian

6th Chinese (878 AV)

7th Armored BDE (Lee/Valentines)
50th Tank BDE (Lee)
254th Armored BDE (Lee)
255th Armored BDE (Lee)
763rd Tank BTL (Stuarts)
3rd Cavalry
623rd, 632nd and 237th US TD battalions


-------------------------
Reinforcements
-------------------------
5th Indian division (55 days).

No more US ground forces will be sent here in the foreseeable future. In fact I will pull out the 32nd and the 1st Marines no later then mid 43 as they are needed for other operations.

There are lots of fighters already on their way to India though including 36 Corsairs, 50 P38s and about 200 transports.

[RogerJNeilson]

Have a think about Ramree, always good fun that.

Roger

[ny59giants]

Cox's Bazaar - Naval Support, Naval Support, Naval Support...
How much do you have there?? If you want to unload quickly and also get off the 'heavy equipment' there needs to be some there. The more the better. [;)]

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

ORIGINAL: JocMeister



Yeah, I have to be wary of complacency going forward. While the IJA is pretty much removed from the game for a long time the IJN is still a very potent force.

It has not. Don't get ahead of yourself.

Let us say he saved a fragment from each of the units to avoid the time in the queue and political points of rebuilding from scratch.

1) Fragments have to make their way to a base where at least 25,000 supplies are amassed. This base also must be kept supplied for thousands of supplied drawn down during the replacement process.
2) This also assumes that the pools have generated enough vehicles and armaments in the pools to replace. Give some time here in this stage.
3) These units will be at the national training level. If they are not just experience builders for Allied units they will have some time in training mode.

Given no previous plan to build the units back, needing to move them to the supply center, take replacements, train ... I say 6 months ..
unless these units are headed to China or someplace like that ..a 40 exp unit is good fodder in the jungles of Burma I guess ..

Meanwhile The Allies toys grow in numbers ..And I am now convinced that the DEI is the route to take with a DBB based scenario ..The rebuilding of IJA divisions will eventually be a bane when the supplies go low

Also .. The Allies right now are

Just as important is the resources that rebuilding the army eats up. This is a game of economy and for Japan there is only so much in the bank.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

ORIGINAL: JocMeister



Yeah, I have to be wary of complacency going forward. While the IJA is pretty much removed from the game for a long time the IJN is still a very potent force.

It has not. Don't get ahead of yourself.

Let us say he saved a fragment from each of the units to avoid the time in the queue and political points of rebuilding from scratch.

1) Fragments have to make their way to a base where at least 25,000 supplies are amassed. This base also must be kept supplied for thousands of supplied drawn down during the replacement process.
2) This also assumes that the pools have generated enough vehicles and armaments in the pools to replace. Give some time here in this stage.
3) These units will be at the national training level. If they are not just experience builders for Allied units they will have some time in training mode.

Given no previous plan to build the units back, needing to move them to the supply center, take replacements, train ... I say 6 months ..
unless these units are headed to China or someplace like that ..a 40 exp unit is good fodder in the jungles of Burma I guess ..

Meanwhile The Allies toys grow in numbers ..And I am now convinced that the DEI is the route to take with a DBB based scenario ..The rebuilding of IJA divisions will eventually be a bane when the supplies go low

Also .. The Allies right now are

1) is wrong. You don't need 25,000 supplies to take replacements - just double required supply at the base.
2) is also wrong - Japanese replacements do not depend upon pools of devices.
3) is also wrong - if he saved a fragment, it will have whatever XP the unit had, and yes it will regress towards the national average (50) but it's not a given that it will drop all the way there.

But even assuming he didn't save anything from these units, the IJA is not out of the fight. Yes, this hurts him, but the IJA didn't vanish with these losses.

[Crackaces]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna




It has not. Don't get ahead of yourself.

Let us say he saved a fragment from each of the units to avoid the time in the queue and political points of rebuilding from scratch.

1) Fragments have to make their way to a base where at least 25,000 supplies are amassed. This base also must be kept supplied for thousands of supplied drawn down during the replacement process.
2) This also assumes that the pools have generated enough vehicles and armaments in the pools to replace. Give some time here in this stage.
3) These units will be at the national training level. If they are not just experience builders for Allied units they will have some time in training mode.

Given no previous plan to build the units back, needing to move them to the supply center, take replacements, train ... I say 6 months ..
unless these units are headed to China or someplace like that ..a 40 exp unit is good fodder in the jungles of Burma I guess ..

Meanwhile The Allies toys grow in numbers ..And I am now convinced that the DEI is the route to take with a DBB based scenario ..The rebuilding of IJA divisions will eventually be a bane when the supplies go low

Also .. The Allies right now are

1) is wrong. You don't need 25,000 supplies to take replacements - just double required supply at the base.
2) is also wrong - Japanese replacements do not depend upon pools of devices.
3) is also wrong - if he saved a fragment, it will have whatever XP the unit had, and yes it will regress towards the national average (50) but it's not a given that it will drop all the way there.

But even assuming he didn't save anything from these units, the IJA is not out of the fight. Yes, this hurts him, but the IJA didn't vanish with these losses.

1) Each of the units will require about 15K supplies last time we discussed this .. granted over time but probably better to have the supplies ahead of time
2) To completely fill out the division .. he will require devices unless he plans infantry only?
3) That was my point .. as he takes replacements the units are not going to the elite units they were once were and if they don't take the time to train they will end up as points and training fodder

Anyway .. you have not contributed to the conversation and plus your idiocy has earned my ban ..

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

1) Each of the units will require about 15K supplies last time we discussed this .. granted over time but probably better to have the supplies ahead of time
2) To completely fill out the division .. he will require devices unless he plans infantry only?
3) That was my point .. as he takes replacements the units are not going to the elite units they were once were and if they don't take the time to train they will end up as points and training fodder

Anyway .. you have not contributed to the conversation and plus your idiocy has earned my ban ..

You're funny. Pointing out your mistakes and yet I'm the idiot, apparently.

For the edification of everybody else who's still (presumably) listening, #2 is still wrong. Japan doesn't really use device pools. The devices are just poofed into existence when units take replacements.

Units also can't train past the national average, so any rebuild of any unit fragments that hypothetically may have been picked up at Santa Ana does not mean those units then need to go train somewhere before they're worthwhile again. Once they're built out, they're back to as good as they're going to get. Whether that's at 50 Exp (national average) or something more like 60 Exp - who knows? It depends on where they started (70? 80? 90?), how many devices they required to fill back out, and luck of the rolls. But it is a reasonable to assume that they'll end up somewhere just above the national average rather than in "veteran" territory (70ish or something Exp).


But my overall point is that, even with the loss of 12 divisions and a very moderate amount of supporting units, the IJA isn't kaput. You don't have the shipping to conduct any enormous invasions for a while yet, and his perimeter (excepting perhaps the Moresby-Rabaul area) is still reasonably far away from anything that's too vulnerable/dangerous for him. The loss of these 12 divisions, aside from the points, is largely irrelevant to any near- and medium-term designs you (Joc) may have had on a Pacific offensive.

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
But my overall point is that, even with the loss of 12 divisions and a very moderate amount of supporting units, the IJA isn't kaput. You don't have the shipping to conduct any enormous invasions for a while yet, and his perimeter (excepting perhaps the Moresby-Rabaul area) is still reasonably far away from anything that's too vulnerable/dangerous for him. The loss of these 12 divisions, aside from the points, is largely irrelevant to any near- and medium-term designs you (Joc) may have had on a Pacific offensive.

Its 13 divisions now. Just got confirmation on the 21st being at Camp Pendleton. [:)]

You have a good point about a Centpac offensive except I´m not planning one. I reckon I won´t need a more direct route until mid - late 44. For now going via Balboa - Oz is working perfectly fine and will just be made easier the more shipping I get. Especially the 16800 END xAKs that can there and back without refuel.

The reason I feel the IJA is now removed is that they are so understrength I don´t have to take it into consideration going forward. I don´t have to fear a counter attack and prepare defenses. I don´t have to massively overprepp to be sure I bring enough which frees up a lot of troops going forward. The speeds up the tempo considerably.

My main target right now is Burma. He has already lost it. Unless he can bring in 6-8 more solid divisions it will be in allied hands before summer.

Can he get a new meaningful perimeter up before the allies are in the DEI? Probably. But they allies will be there a year early. That is the real disaster for Japan.

[JocMeister]

[font="Verdana"]SS Harder[/font]
_____________________________________________________________________________

A good day for the Harder!