Disappearing Dutch Ship Wrecks

[John 3rd]

Just found this article on my news feed:

Three shipwrecks dating from World War II have disappeared from the bottom of the sea bed off Indonesia, likely the work of illegal drivers salvaging metal from the remains.

The remains of the Dutch vessels are from the Battle of the Java Sea, which was fought in 1942 between Allied and Japanese forces. Discovered in 2002 on an amateur diving expedition, the site is recognised as a sacred war grave as over 2,000 people died in the battle. Parts of the wreckage site were discovered to have vanished by divers undertaking preparations for the 75th anniversary of the Battle, which will be commemorated next year.

Dutch News reported that Defence Minister Jeanine Hennis told fellow MPs of the disappearance of the ships from the sea bed in a briefing on Tuesday. “The Battle for Java Sea is part of our collective memory,” the minister said. “The wrecks bear silent witness to the the tragic events and form a backdrop to the many stories about the terrors of war and the comradeship between crew.”

According to the Guardian, Hennis confirmed that an international investigation will be launched into the disappearance, noting that the majority of two of the ships were missing, while parts of the third had also disappeared. It is not the first time that a mystery involving vanishing shipwrecks has occurred in the region, as illegal divers have previously stripped other shipwrecks in search for metal to salvage.

[dr.hal]

Yes I've seen a couple of news briefs on this. Although the Java Sea is shallow, any operation to salvage enough metal to make it worth the effort (even by poor country standards) would entail a very obvious effort, including a salvage ship with a large lifting capacity and big time cutting equipment. I'm hard pressed to believe that local officials do not know about this. Indonesia claims all the Java Sea as "Internal Waterways" as defined by UNCLOS III, which means that only locals could possibly be involved and that these seas are patrolled regularly by the Indonesian Coast Guard. Clearly a number of people, possibly including government officials, have little regard for the concept of a war grave.

[btd64]

Saw this in my news feed last night. Thanks for posting John. It's a shame that sites like this are being pillaged....GP

[btd64]

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

Clearly a number of people, possibly including government officials, have little regard for the concept of a war grave.

Yeah, and the graves are for there own people....GP

[dr.hal]

ORIGINAL: General Patton

Yeah, and the graves are for there own people....GP

Actually the graves are not for their own people but, as some locals might see it, for foreign Imperialist occupiers. There was and still is a lot of hatred for the Dutch in Indonesia. So given that background there might be very little IF ANY sympathy by local and national officials for those who want to protect these graves.

[Dutch_slith]

Exeter, Encounter, Electra and Perch have been stripped too.

[dr.hal]

How did you hear this? What of the Houston? Hal

[Jorge_Stanbury]

It is hard to believe scrap metal can be that valuable as to make salvage operations economical

[btd64]

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

ORIGINAL: General Patton

Yeah, and the graves are for there own people....GP

Actually the graves are not for their own people but, as some locals might see it, for foreign Imperialist occupiers. There was and still is a lot of hatred for the Dutch in Indonesia. So given that background there might be very little IF ANY sympathy by local and national officials for those who want to protect these graves.

My bad, your right. I was thinking in terms of defending the DEI....GP

[dr.hal]

Not your "bad" GP, you are just too wrapped up in WITP AE!!!! Which says something for the game!

[btd64]

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

Not your "bad" GP, you are just too wrapped up in WITP AE!!!! Which says something for the game!

You read me like a book dr.hal[:'(]....GP

[Rising-Sun]

Yeah I noticed it, some people are saying least they are cleaning up the garbage in the ocean and others were upset over it because they knew their past life of it. Things will change everywhere, that will start to decay over time. If the governments really care about that, they need to monitor the situations, least protect it. But that wont happen, it is too far and too costly to do that.

Hard to believe those who did this are making profits from rusty metals over sixty years, didn't think it would worth much. Unless they didn't want it there and moved it elsewhere.

[IslandInland]

I've just read about this here

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-37997640


It seems really odd. I can't believe they have all been salvaged as it hardly seems worth the effort. Perhaps they have been moved by natural forces.

If they have been salvaged then that would be completely unacceptable.

[MakeeLearn]

Pacific wreckage

http://www.pacificwrecks.com/ships/hms/exeter.html


http://www.pacificwrecks.com/ships/HrMs/java.html

[Dutch_slith]

A dutch newspaper mentioned only Exeter, Encounter, Electra and Perch.

http://www.ad.nl/buitenland/ook-britse-zeemansgraven-in-javazee-compleet-verdwenen~a7583ece/

[Marshall]

Such efforts of salvaging these ships, cannot be done without the indonesian goverment knowing it.

It is really an outrage and economic sanctions must be taken to set an example.

[GaryChildress]

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

It is hard to believe scrap metal can be that valuable as to make salvage operations economical

Steel cast prior to the atomic bomb detonations in the atmosphere is apparently worth quite a bit for the construction of scientific instruments and other things that require a very low radiation footprint.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-background_steel

[Jorge_Stanbury]

BBC:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-38010130

"Nibbling away"
What was more likely was that locals clandestinely stripped the wrecks in a piecemeal fashion over the years until nothing was left. Bas Wiebe, commercial manager of salvage company Resolve's Asia operations, said they could have cut away parts of the rotting wreckage using mechanical equipment known as grabs. "If time is not of the essence, you have a barge and equipment, you could just nibble away," said another expert who declined to be named citing political sensitivities. Another possibility is that the ships were blown up into smaller pieces - a cheaper and faster way to disintegrate wrecks. "It is not like an huge explosion like you see on TV. It's basically fairly contained but enough to break apart the vessel and if you do it a few times, you can just fish out the pieces," said Mr Wiebe.

[Jorge_Stanbury]

British ships too:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/ ... g-java-sea

[Alpha77]

This sounds like BS stories tbh. Never ever will be metal from the botton of the seas be worth the cost to extract it. In fact metal prices have all fallen over the last years (here ofc scrap metal too and so called "scrappers" were already complaining). If the prices had tripled then yes, perhaps. And then not steel but if itwas copper, nickel, silver etc.